Email from the MD State Police

I wonder what the MSP would do if someone tried to bring in and register a pre oct 13 lightweight 80% build.

outrider58 said:

...
The curious part of the letter is where they suggest you put a heavy barrel on your Bushmaster. I didn't think you could do that and be legal in Md, but I'm not a lawyer.

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That's what caught my attention, because the extra-legal ban on products with a particular brand name, which only began about 2014, is something I have ranted at length about. https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=5287840&postcount=11

The new e mail is actually correct, because Bushmaster BRAND AR 15 HBARs were never regulated, and there is no legal reason for them to be banned, as the MSP has historically known.

If you have a light barreled AR 15 you bought in 2015 in another state, you should be able to slap an HBAR on it and bring it to your new Maryland home without "registering" it at all. Daniel Defense, DPMS, or Bushmaster - the brand name makes no difference. The "Bushmaster" on the old List is an entirely different rifle. MSP knows that perfectly well.

The problem is, the MSP is Institutionally Incoherent on everything relating to firearms law and regulation. Individual troopers frequently declare things they rightly or wrongly believe to be the law.

smokey0118 said:

msp be like... banned

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Well those things should be shredded and melted down. No one needs a Bushmaster to hunt ducks.

mvee said:

I wonder what the MSP would do if someone tried to bring in and register a pre oct 13 lightweight 80% build.

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.

I would just buy a heavy barreled upper, slap it on it. Archive the original upper.


(Obviously not legal advice)

Sorry for your loss.

Threeband said:

That's what caught my attention, because the extra-legal ban on products with a particular brand name, which only began about 2014, is something I have ranted at length about. https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=5287840&postcount=11

The new e mail is actually correct, because Bushmaster BRAND AR 15 HBARs were never regulated, and there is no legal reason for them to be banned, as the MSP has historically known.

If you have a light barreled AR 15 you bought in 2015 in another state, you should be able to slap an HBAR on it and bring it to your new Maryland home without "registering" it at all. Daniel Defense, DPMS, or Bushmaster - the brand name makes no difference. The "Bushmaster" on the old List is an entirely different rifle. MSP knows that perfectly well.

The problem is, the MSP is Institutionally Incoherent on everything relating to firearms law and regulation. Individual troopers frequently declare things they rightly or wrongly believe to be the law.

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But if you go to the Firearms Search, everything made by Bushmaster is a no go "enumerated in statute"

TexDefender said:

Since private sales are legal in many states and no record is required, and lets not forget people can inherit as well, the law is stupid. It needs to be removed or revamped at a minimum. Is there any other circumstances that you could receive a long arm legally? Can a family member give a long arm to a relative?

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Everything about Maryland is stupid!

balttigger said:

But if you go to the Firearms Search, everything made by Bushmaster is a no go "enumerated in statute"

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That is my point. That is WRONG.That ban is not legal. There is no legal basis for it. The Maryland State Police knows that perfectly well.

That "Firearms Search" on the MSP website is full of mistakes, and this is one of them.


I have already posted this a dozen times. I wish you would read my links .


Okay.



The BUSHMASTER RIFLE enumerated in statute in 1988 is this thing:







There was also a later bullpup pistol version:






These things were made in limited quantities way back in the 1970s and 1980s, which when the List of Banned Weapons was also produced, (which you would know if you would bother to read any of my many, many earlier posts).

From ARFCOM:

...
Firearms were produced with the Gwinn name from 1972-1974 according to some sources on the web.

Here is what I found from another site:

The Gwinn Arms Company of Winston-Salem, North Carolina, were in business from 1972 -1974 before Gwinn went bankrupt, and Quality Parts (reformed as Bushmaster ) bought them out. Mark Gwinn was the inventor of the original bushmaster rifle.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/-/2-222400/?page=1

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The Maryland State Police has always known that the BUSHMASTER RIFLE on the Regulated Firearms list is NOT a brand name for an AR!%.

The Maryland State Police has always known that the BUSHMASTER is an obscure rifle which has been out of production for decades.

HBAR AR 15s made by Bushmaster Arms Company, that is a FREAKING BRAND NAME NOT A MODEL OF A RIFLE are NOT REGULATED.


Bushmaster BRAND HBARS were always sold as unregulated, with no waiting period and no registration.

Bushmaster BRAND HBARS were always sold as unregulated, with no waiting period and no registration.


Get that?

That's because the MSP always understood that the Enumerated Firearm on that stupid List from 1988 is a crazy oddball that hasn't even been made in decades.

That's because the MSP always understood that the Bushmaster Brand was something totally different.

For years and years and years and years and years
you could walk into any gun store in Maryland, buy a Bushmaster BRAND AR 15 HBAR and walk out the door with it 20 minutes later. No waiting period. No Form 77r. No registration. Just a Federal Form 4473, and after 2007, a Federal Instant Background Check, and out the door you go with your new rifle, just like buying a single shot .22.

Do you understand that?

Maryland ALWAYS understood that.

There must be THOUSANDS of Bushmaster Ar !5 HBARs in Maryland which were sold cash and carry that way.



Then suddenly, after 2013, they suddenly started acting as if Bushmaster Brand AR 15 HBARS were banned.

That is WRONG.


Individual troopers might not know that. The fools who edit their online "is this rifle legal" list don't know that.

But as an Institution, the Maryland State Police has ALWAYS known the difference between the Gwinn Firearms "Bushmaster" and the Bushmaster BRAND Ar 15.

Until suddenly, in 2014, they started pretending they didn't.




Now I have repeated this same stupid rant a dozen times. PLEASE just READ MY DAMN LINKS SO I DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT THIS AGAIN.


https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2563899&postcount=18

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

Register the lowers as SBR's. Done.

Muleskinner said:

And the burden of proof is on the state, not on you. Let them find the dammed date of purchase...

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BUT....who has deep enough pockets...or the time and energy... to defend themselves should charges be brought. And even if you ultimately win, suppose some OWEMalley appointed judge initially decides you are guilty? The state can and will take all your firearms. And it doesn't even matter if the sentence ended up probation. The potential sentence will certainly be more than 2 years. So, when when you prevail (presuming you ultimately do) your firearms will be in purgatory and not properly cared for in years plus you will still have to jump through hoops to get them back.
Frankly Bushmaster should have filed a lawsuit right after this law passed. Tgere sgould be no reason why they can't priduce a replica of a Colt HBAR or other Md legal AR just as other compnues do. Seems to me to deny them on the basis of manufacturer name only violates the comerce privision if our Constitution.
For that matter, for most intents an purposes, a Windham HBAR is a Bushmaster HBAR...all except for the manufacturer name.

sxs said:

BUT....who has deep enough pockets...or the time and energy... to defend themselves should charges be brought. And even if you ultimately win, suppose some OWEMalley appointed judge initially decides you are guilty? The state can and will take all your firearms. And it doesn't even matter if the sentence ended up probation. The potential sentence will certainly be more than 2 years. So, when when you prevail (presuming you ultimately do) your firearms will be in purgatory and not properly cared for in years plus you will still have to jump through hoops to get them back.
Frankly Bushmaster should have filed a lawsuit right after this law passed. Tgere sgould be no reason why they can't priduce a replica of a Colt HBAR or other Md legal AR just as other compnues do. Seems to me to deny them on the basis of manufacturer name only violates the comerce privision if our Constitution.
For that matter, for most intents an purposes, a Windham HBAR is a Bushmaster HBAR...all except for the manufacturer name.

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In essence Bushmaster did file a suit. It was captioned kolbe v omalley and it lost in the dist ct, won forst round in the ct of appeals and lost en banc. The supreme ct refused to hear it.
Judges appointed by omalley are not all anti gun. One of my favorite judges owns 4 handguns, shoots frequently and trains self defense. Many other judges are gun people. However, as i wrote, you may be going where no man has gone before meaning there is no prescedent and the result is uncertain.

Threeband said:

That is my point. That is WRONG.That ban is not legal. There is no legal basis for it. The Maryland State Police knows that perfectly well.

That "Firearms Search" on the MSP website is full of mistakes, and this is one of them.


I have already posted this a dozen times. I wish you would read my links .


Okay.



The BUSHMASTER RIFLE enumerated in statute in 1988 is this thing:

There was also a later bullpup pistol version:

These things were made in limited quantities way back in the 1970s and 1980s, which when the List of Banned Weapons was also produced, (which you would know if you would bother to read any of my many, many earlier posts).

From ARFCOM:



The Maryland State Police has always known that the BUSHMASTER RIFLE on the Regulated Firearms list is NOT a brand name for an AR!%.

The Maryland State Police has always known that the BUSHMASTER is an obscure rifle which has been out of production for decades.

HBAR AR 15s made by Bushmaster Arms Company, that is a FREAKING BRAND NAME NOT A MODEL OF A RIFLE are NOT REGULATED.


Bushmaster BRAND HBARS were always sold as unregulated, with no waiting period and no registration.

Bushmaster BRAND HBARS were always sold as unregulated, with no waiting period and no registration.


Get that?

That's because the MSP always understood that the Enumerated Firearm on that stupid List from 1988 is a crazy oddball that hasn't even been made in decades.

That's because the MSP always understood that the Bushmaster Brand was something totally different.

For years and years and years and years and years
you could walk into any gun store in Maryland, buy a Bushmaster BRAND AR 15 HBAR and walk out the door with it 20 minutes later. No waiting period. No Form 77r. No registration. Just a Federal Form 4473, and after 2007, a Federal Instant Background Check, and out the door you go with your new rifle, just like buying a single shot .22.

Do you understand that?

Maryland ALWAYS understood that.

There must be THOUSANDS of Bushmaster Ar !5 HBARs in Maryland which were sold cash and carry that way.



Then suddenly, after 2013, they suddenly started acting as if Bushmaster Brand AR 15 HBARS were banned.

That is WRONG.


Individual troopers might not know that. The fools who edit their online "is this rifle legal" list don't know that.

But as an Institution, the Maryland State Police has ALWAYS known the difference between the Gwinn Firearms "Bushmaster" and the Bushmaster BRAND Ar 15.

Until suddenly, in 2014, they started pretending they didn't.




Now I have repeated this same stupid rant a dozen times. PLEASE just READ MY DAMN LINKS SO I DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT THIS AGAIN.


https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2563899&postcount=18

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

Click to expand...

You can rant like a child all you want. Go purchase a Bushmaster rifle in MD, then show us a picture of your purchase. We'll wait. It doesn't matter how "right" you are. You still can't do it.

Where, in any of my dozens of rants, did I ever indicate otherwise?

No need for insults, cupcake.


However, the OP of this thread was apparently instructed to put an HBAR on his Bushmaster, thus making it legal.

That's what caught my interest in the first place.

Threeband said:

That is my point. That is WRONG.That ban is not legal. There is no legal basis for it. The Maryland State Police knows that perfectly well.

That "Firearms Search" on the MSP website is full of mistakes, and this is one of them.


I have already posted this a dozen times. I wish you would read my links .


Okay.



The BUSHMASTER RIFLE enumerated in statute in 1988 is this thing:

There was also a later bullpup pistol version:

These things were made in limited quantities way back in the 1970s and 1980s, which when the List of Banned Weapons was also produced, (which you would know if you would bother to read any of my many, many earlier posts).

From ARFCOM:



The Maryland State Police has always known that the BUSHMASTER RIFLE on the Regulated Firearms list is NOT a brand name for an AR!%.

The Maryland State Police has always known that the BUSHMASTER is an obscure rifle which has been out of production for decades.

HBAR AR 15s made by Bushmaster Arms Company, that is a FREAKING BRAND NAME NOT A MODEL OF A RIFLE are NOT REGULATED.


Bushmaster BRAND HBARS were always sold as unregulated, with no waiting period and no registration.

Bushmaster BRAND HBARS were always sold as unregulated, with no waiting period and no registration.


Get that?

That's because the MSP always understood that the Enumerated Firearm on that stupid List from 1988 is a crazy oddball that hasn't even been made in decades.

That's because the MSP always understood that the Bushmaster Brand was something totally different.

For years and years and years and years and years
you could walk into any gun store in Maryland, buy a Bushmaster BRAND AR 15 HBAR and walk out the door with it 20 minutes later. No waiting period. No Form 77r. No registration. Just a Federal Form 4473, and after 2007, a Federal Instant Background Check, and out the door you go with your new rifle, just like buying a single shot .22.

Do you understand that?

Maryland ALWAYS understood that.

There must be THOUSANDS of Bushmaster Ar !5 HBARs in Maryland which were sold cash and carry that way.



Then suddenly, after 2013, they suddenly started acting as if Bushmaster Brand AR 15 HBARS were banned.

That is WRONG.


Individual troopers might not know that. The fools who edit their online "is this rifle legal" list don't know that.

But as an Institution, the Maryland State Police has ALWAYS known the difference between the Gwinn Firearms "Bushmaster" and the Bushmaster BRAND Ar 15.

Until suddenly, in 2014, they started pretending they didn't.




Now I have repeated this same stupid rant a dozen times. PLEASE just READ MY DAMN LINKS SO I DON'T HAVE TO REPEAT THIS AGAIN.


https://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=2563899&postcount=18

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

https://www.mdshooters.com/search.php?searchid=31441964

Click to expand...

I've read your rants and links...a few times (the last three listed didn't work...but I think I remember the gist). You're absolutely correct; the law is wrong...so what What can we do? Obivously you are passionate about this, to the point of sounding angry (at us? ) but what's your endgame? I don't think ranting on here is going to make MSP understand, admit and correct their mistake.

If the government can't get something as simple as, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," how on earth can you expect them to get that an AR-type semi automatic rifle manufactured by a company called Bushmaster is not a "Bushmaster semi-auto rifle," as enumerated in the statute? Personally, I think in light of 2A, all of the infringement of FSA 2013 is not legal...but I'm not going to go try to buy an AK any time soon.

There is always going to be confusion on here about that, just like there will always be questions like, "What makes it an Hbar?," "Why won't my dealer sell me an MIA?" "HQ-whatsitcalled?" and "Sooo...can I buy hi-cap mags out of state" (and, they will always have to be corrected about hi-cap vs. standard capacity every time as well).

By all means share your insights until you are sick of it, but please be nice to the noobs (and the rest of us, who've heard it before and feel like we are being scolded despite agreeing with you).

Art3 said:

I've read your rants and links...a few times (the last three listed didn't work...but I think I remember the gist). You're absolutely correct; the law is wrong...so what What can we do? Obivously you are passionate about this, to the point of sounding angry (at us? ) but what's your endgame? I don't think ranting on here is going to make MSP understand, admit and correct their mistake.

If the government can't get something as simple as, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," how on earth can you expect them to get that an AR-type semi automatic rifle manufactured by a company called Bushmaster is not a "Bushmaster semi-auto rifle," as enumerated in the statute? Personally, I think in light of 2A, all of the infringement of FSA 2013 is not legal...but I'm not going to go try to buy an AK any time soon.

There is always going to be confusion on here about that, just like there will always be questions like, "What makes it an Hbar?," "Why won't my dealer sell me an MIA?" "HQ-whatsitcalled?" and "Sooo...can I buy hi-cap mags out of state" (and, they will always have to be corrected about hi-cap vs. standard capacity every time as well).

By all means share your insights until you are sick of it, but please be nice to the noobs (and the rest of us, who've heard it before and feel like we are being scolded despite agreeing with you).

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My 'evolving' thoughts and concerns on the subject of MSP and the 'State' are; I almost rather they stay ignorant and blithely ban this, that, or the other thing than the unspeakable alternative. The lesser of two weevils, if you will. That's my short-sided opinion.

Art3 said:

I've read your rants and links...a few times (the last three listed didn't work...but I think I remember the gist). You're absolutely correct; the law is wrong...so what What can we do? Obivously you are passionate about this, to the point of sounding angry (at us? ) but what's your endgame? I don't think ranting on here is going to make MSP understand, admit and correct their mistake.
<snip>

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Perhaps a lawsuit would get their (MSP's) attention? The OP has a perfect case to bring, based on the letter they sent him and their paste history of allowing the HBAR version to be cash and carry as well a confirmation on MSP letterhead that the Bushmaster HBAR was indeed cash and carry as a copy of the Colt Sporter HBAR.

I would have advised not to say anything to MD SP. They would have no way of knowing when you bought those rifles and unless you committed a crime would never know you had them.

Mr.Blue said:

Everything about Maryland is stupid!

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If its fun, its illegal. Why did you move to Maryland? Most people are trying to leave.

lemmdus said:

If its fun, its illegal. Why did you move to Maryland? Most people are trying to leave.

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He could be like me and was forced to move here because of family/work/divorce/etc. I have a 2-4 year plan to move out of here again.