How precise do I have to be on Form 1 regarding OAL?

fabsroman · Dec 29, 2015

Well, I am getting ready to complete three Form 1 applications. While I sort of know what I want build wise on one of them and it will most likely come out to 29.1", I am waffling a little on the other two builds. Not only that, but even if I knew exactly how I wanted to build these rifles, there is no way for me to know for sure what my OAL is going to be until I build them.

What happens if I put 29.1" on all three of the Form 1 applications for OAL and then end up going longer than 29.1" OAL?

rouchna · Dec 29, 2015

fabsroman said:
Well, I am getting ready to complete three Form 1 applications. While I sort of know what I want build wise on one of them and it will most likely come out to 29.1", I am waffling a little on the other two builds. Not only that, but even if I knew exactly how I wanted to build these rifles, there is no way for me to know for sure what my OAL is going to be until I build them.

What happens if I put 29.1" on all three of the Form 1 applications for OAL and then end up going longer than 29.1" OAL?

Nothing. You're good to go. I processed my 9mm SBR as 24" OAL and ended up with 26".

Gryphon · Dec 29, 2015

fabsroman said:
What happens if I put 29.1" on . . . the Form 1 applications for OAL and then end up going longer than 29.1" OAL?

That's what I did for he very same reason, and not the least bit concerned about it.

protegeV · Dec 29, 2015

Which reminds me. I need to do the same thing...

AssMan · Dec 29, 2015

Join the club. Submitted 2 today and hope to submit one more on Friday.

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protegeV · Dec 29, 2015

clock's ticking. Need to get my hand on a lower first :ohnoes:

fabsroman · Dec 29, 2015

I think the entire SBR process is going to end up breaking me. The FBI website has hung up three times on me now and I have only been able to get one of these Form 1's submitted. As I started on the 2nd one, I realized I left off the leading zeroes of the serial number on the first Form 1.

Yep, the entire process is wearing me down, but I refuse to let up. Going to be fun to figure out how I am going to build these.

Decided to go with 12.5" barrel on .223 Wylde, 10.5" barrel on .300 BLK, and 12" barrel on .458 SOCOM, all at 29.1" OAL.

Guess I will have a couple of months to ponder the build dilemma as I wait for the stamps. Assuming I can get these final two forms submitted.

fabsroman · Dec 29, 2015

protegeV said:
clock's ticking. Need to get my hand on a lower first

I've had the lowers sitting in the safe since March. Just never had the time to sit down and complete the trust document. January 1, 2016 and 41-P have made this a priority yesterday and today. Still spending way too much time on this BS than should be necessary. This should be as simple as going to my FFL, completing the Form 4473 and walking out with the SBR. Might even concede to completing the MSP Form 77R, but I still think that is a waste of time and effort too. All of this BATF Form 1, Form 4, etc. stuff is just additional BS, along with the $200 tax. I'd pay an additional $400 if they would just rubber stamp all of this the same day at the FFL and give me the SBR.

Then again, if it was so easy to obtain an SBR, I probably would not be going through this right now and probably would not own any. Same goes for all the FSA2013 buying. Would probably still only own 1 handgun, 1 AR-15, and 1 AR-10. Nope, FSA2013 made me evaluate everything that I "might" want in the future and somewhat forced me to buy it all prior to October 1, 2013.

As pissed off as I am today, there is going to be a lot of ranting from me.

protegeV · Dec 29, 2015

fabsroman said:
I've had the lowers sitting in the safe since March. Just never had the time to sit down and complete the trust document. January 1, 2016 and 41-P have made this a priority yesterday and today. Still spending way too much time on this BS than should be necessary. This should be as simple as going to my FFL, completing the Form 4473 and walking out with the SBR. Might even concede to completing the MSP Form 77R, but I still think that is a waste of time and effort too. All of this BATF Form 1, Form 4, etc. stuff is just additional BS, along with the $200 tax. I'd pay an additional $400 if they would just rubber stamp all of this the same day at the FFL and give me the SBR.

Then again, if it was so easy to obtain an SBR, I probably would not be going through this right now and probably would not own any. Same goes for all the FSA2013 buying. Would probably still only own 1 handgun, 1 AR-15, and 1 AR-10. Nope, FSA2013 made me evaluate everything that I "might" want in the future and somewhat forced me to buy it all prior to October 1, 2013.

As pissed off as I am today, there is going to be a lot of ranting from me.

I hear that. I want one bc they make it so hard> :lol2:

outrider58 · Dec 29, 2015

29" is legal. Put down 29". It can end up longer, ust not shorter(being as you can't know for sure until you build it, and you can't build it until you have your stamp.

fabsroman · Dec 29, 2015

outrider58 said:
29" is legal. Put down 29". I can end up longer, ust not shorter(being as you can't know for sure until you build it, and you can't build it until you have your stamp.

Already submitted 29.1" for the first two. Might as well do the same for the third one. I mean, what is a tenth of an inch anyway. lol

I am more worried about leaving off the two leading zeroes on the serial number of the first lower. Cannot believe I left off those zeroes. Then again, with only 4 hours of sleep and the frustration of dealing with all of this at year end, with work piling up behind me, I might be able to cut myself some slack.

No way to go back and edit the Form 1 after hitting submit. So, we shall see what happens. Might end up with one less SBR than I was hoping for. Might end up having to call the ATF this afternoon. Wonder if that is as much fun as calling the IRS, or more for that matter.

AACo · Dec 29, 2015

fabsroman said:
Already submitted 29.1" for the first two. Might as well do the same for the third one. I mean, what is a tenth of an inch anyway. lol

I am more worried about leaving off the two leading zeroes on the serial number of the first lower. Cannot believe I left off those zeroes. Then again, with only 4 hours of sleep and the frustration of dealing with all of this at year end, with work piling up behind me, I might be able to cut myself some slack.

No way to go back and edit the Form 1 after hitting submit. So, we shall see what happens. Might end up with one less SBR than I was hoping for. Might end up having to call the ATF this afternoon. Wonder if that is as much fun as calling the IRS, or more for that matter.

From what I have heard, the ATF actually has surprisingly good customer service.

I have heard of people making an error, and they get a call about a denial. The ATF lets them correct the form and approves it the next day. I'm sure this doesn't apply to all, but just an example.

pwoolford · Dec 29, 2015

fabsroman said:
Already submitted 29.1" for the first two. Might as well do the same for the third one. I mean, what is a tenth of an inch anyway. lol

I am more worried about leaving off the two leading zeroes on the serial number of the first lower. Cannot believe I left off those zeroes. Then again, with only 4 hours of sleep and the frustration of dealing with all of this at year end, with work piling up behind me, I might be able to cut myself some slack.

No way to go back and edit the Form 1 after hitting submit. So, we shall see what happens. Might end up with one less SBR than I was hoping for. Might end up having to call the ATF this afternoon. Wonder if that is as much fun as calling the IRS, or more for that matter.

Don't worry...it gets much easier. My first couple drove me crazy but now I can knock one out in a few minutes. I try to copy model/serial # from my original lower purchase paperwork. SBR's are so much fun it is worth the trouble!

fabsroman · Dec 29, 2015

pwoolford said:
Don't worry...it gets much easier. My first couple drove me crazy but now I can knock one out in a few minutes. I try to copy model/serial # from my original lower purchase paperwork. SBR's are so much fun it is worth the trouble!

The receiver was right in front of me as I was typing. I cannot believe I forgot the two leading zeroes. Might be learning a lesson the hard way. Got the serial number right on the next two applications though.

I called ATF and was told by the lady I spoke to that they do not deal with e-forms in that office. Of course, I was calling the number that was provided with my e-mail confirmation from ATF, but they do not deal with e-forms in that office. Anyway, she told me to send an e-mail to eforms.request@atf.gov to request that the application be cancelled and she advised me to re-submit the application with the correct serial number. So, I sent the e-mail asking that the application be cancelled and that the tax be refunded. I also asked how soon I can re-submit the application.

If I do not hear anything by this time tomorrow, I will just re-submit it. Think I am going to change the barrel length on that one from 12.5" to a nice 11.3" Wilson Combat barrel that I was looking at last night, and also change the cartridge from .223 to 5.56 since that is what the Wilson Combat is chambered for instead of .223 Wylde which was the chambering on the 12.5" barrel I was looking at.

Yeah, after buggering up the first one, application two and three went really smoothly. Of course, I will say they went really smoothly once I receive my stamps. Then again, application #3 was for the .458 SOCOM, which wasn't an option for my receiver manufacturer, so that is going to take some additional research time on the part of the ATF before it can be approved.

Advil or liquor, Advil or liquor, Advil or liquor

Not quite as mind numbing as 2013, but the process sure ain't fun. Those of us gun owners that complete this process should be given an award.

outrider58 · Dec 30, 2015

fabsroman said:
Already submitted 29.1" for the first two. Might as well do the same for the third one. I mean, what is a tenth of an inch anyway. lol

I am more worried about leaving off the two leading zeroes on the serial number of the first lower. Cannot believe I left off those zeroes. Then again, with only 4 hours of sleep and the frustration of dealing with all of this at year end, with work piling up behind me, I might be able to cut myself some slack.

No way to go back and edit the Form 1 after hitting submit. So, we shall see what happens. Might end up with one less SBR than I was hoping for. Might end up having to call the ATF this afternoon. Wonder if that is as much fun as calling the IRS, or more for that matter.

There is a way to cancel a submission. I have done it after finding an error in a form 1 efile. They refund your money...eventually and in the meantime, you resubmit you 'corrected' form 1.

fabsroman · Dec 30, 2015

outrider58 said:
There is a way to cancel a submission. I have done it after finding an error in a form 1 efile. They refund your money...eventually and in the meantime, you resubmit you 'corrected' form 1.

I found the answer in an e-forms instruction doc.

- Withdrawal/cancellation of NFA application
The withdrawal of a submitted/in process status eForm 1 or the cancellation of an approved status eForm 1 must be done by directing a written request to the NFA Branch (address on the form) or an email to the NFA Branch
(nfa@atf.gov). Please include the information relating to the transaction, such as the control number. A copy of the payment information that was sent by Pay.gov at the time of payment should also be included. The refund will take about 30 days once the form is closed out.

That can be found at the bottom of page 7:

https://www.atf.gov/file/11726/download

Looks like an e-mail is in order after dinner. Tomorrow, I submit a new Form 1 for that receiver.

outrider58 · Dec 30, 2015

fabsroman said:
I found the answer in an e-forms instruction doc.

- Withdrawal/cancellation of NFA application
The withdrawal of a submitted/in process status eForm 1 or the cancellation of an approved status eForm 1 must be done by directing a written request to the NFA Branch (address on the form) or an email to the NFA Branch
(nfa@atf.gov). Please include the information relating to the transaction, such as the control number. A copy of the payment information that was sent by Pay.gov at the time of payment should also be included. The refund will take about 30 days once the form is closed out.

That can be found at the bottom of page 7:

https://www.atf.gov/file/11726/download

Looks like an e-mail is in order after dinner. Tomorrow, I submit a new Form 1 for that receiver.

My refund came pretty fast.

AssMan · Dec 30, 2015

fabsroman said:
Already submitted 29.1" for the first two. Might as well do the same for the third one. I mean, what is a tenth of an inch anyway. lol

I am more worried about leaving off the two leading zeroes on the serial number of the first lower. Cannot believe I left off those zeroes. Then again, with only 4 hours of sleep and the frustration of dealing with all of this at year end, with work piling up behind me, I might be able to cut myself some slack.

No way to go back and edit the Form 1 after hitting submit. So, we shall see what happens. Might end up with one less SBR than I was hoping for. Might end up having to call the ATF this afternoon. Wonder if that is as much fun as calling the IRS, or more for that matter.

In a few months you will most likely receive a letter from them stating that they don't have a record of an xxx serial number from xxx manufacturer. You will be given adoption to fix the error then. :thumbsup:

edit, Nevermind. I missed that you are asking for a refund instead.

AssMan · Dec 30, 2015

fabsroman said:
I think the entire SBR process is going to end up breaking me. The FBI website has hung up three times on me now and I have only been able to get one of these Form 1's submitted.

Also happened to me multiple times. I finally submitted at 2:30 AM. What worked for me was to skip ahead to the "document upload" screen, and upload a small 1 page file. Then I was always able to upload the larger trust file. You can then go back and delete the initial file if you need to (in my case it was a single page assignment of property to the trust, so I left it.)

Their technology seriously sucks. If you needed further proof of the divide in capability between the public/private sectors, just launch the eForm app. :innocent0

rico903 · Jan 1, 2016

I want to get moving on this but find the efile process daunting. Not very computer smart. Have a trust but don't know how to upload the info or shrink it etc.

How precise do I have to be on Form 1 regarding OAL?

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