Is this Federal 223 Ammo all the same?

Art3 · Dec 24, 2019

I've accumulated several variaties of boxes of Federal 223, and I suspect (hope) it is all the same ammo inside. The specs (where given) are all 55gr FMJ, and the same velocity (3240fps, IIRC).

Is it all the same stuff, just wrapped differently? If not, what's the difference?

My favorite had always been the big red box (from the bad place...before they were bad), and we have a couple of rifles that liked it better than more expensive varieties. Since it was cheap, and readily available, they weren't given much choice anyway.

davsco · Dec 24, 2019

i'm interested also. i bought some of that blue box stuff above and it worked fine but the brass wasn't pretty at all. never had that with the red and white american eagle boxes. and now they have ae223m with the m presumably for military, again not sure of what if any differences.

Sundazes · Dec 24, 2019

I have blue box marked 556x45, XM193, 3165 FPS
I would have to dig out the other to see what it says.

3paul10 · Dec 24, 2019

....calling Ammo Jon....

Ammo Jon · Dec 24, 2019

You rang honey?

For more detailed specs I’d go here.
https://www.federalpremium.com/rifle/american-eagle/american-eagle-rifle/11-AE223.html

SKIP · Dec 24, 2019

As a reloader I avoided Federal not knowing if they had crimped primers. There are so many flavors to choose from.
Is it correct to say .223 Rem is not crimped but 5,56 is crimped?

danb · Dec 24, 2019

They will not chrono the same out of the same rifle, dont ask me how I know. I have the three boxes on the bottom. My carbine likes these. Inside 200 yards at steel they are effectively equivalent (you may not shoot well enough to tell), but the chrono tells the tale. I suspect that they have changed powders over time - even if they chrono the same out of their test barrel (20"?), out of a carbine they seem to be different. Out of a carbine (16") am not getting anything remotely close to 3240fps - I got more like 2850 for the red/blue box on the left), and about 75 fps more from the black box on the right. YMMV. Like I said, depends on the application. If you are shooting steel inside 200yds you will not notice much change in zero.

GolfR · Dec 24, 2019

I found the black box bulk packs to be hotter and have more recoil than the blue box stuff. I think it’s a different powder because everything else looks exactly the same. I use all the bulk stuff for 3 gun and practice so I haven’t spent the time to put a ton of it past a chrono.

I’ve also bought two cases of the blue box stuff at the same time and found that the brass was stamped differently between the two. One had the round circles and one just said FC. Based on this I suspect that there is going to be variation in the product regardless of which box color you select.

Ammo Jon · Dec 24, 2019

The one in the white box, make sure to never resell.

Art3 · Dec 24, 2019

danb said:
They will not chrono the same out of the same rifle, dont ask me how I know. I have the three boxes on the bottom. My carbine likes these. Inside 200 yards at steel they are effectively equivalent (you may not shoot well enough to tell), but the chrono tells the tale. I suspect that they have changed powders over time - even if they chrono the same out of their test barrel (20"?), out of a carbine they seem to be different. Out of a carbine (16") am not getting anything remotely close to 3240fps - I got more like 2850 for the red/blue box on the left), and about 75 fps more from the black box on the right. YMMV. Like I said, depends on the application. If you are shooting steel inside 200yds you will not notice much change in zero.

Hmm...that's interesting that they chrono differently from the different boxes :tap:

I agree that 3240 is awfully optimistic. Over the summer I chrono'ed some of the red box out of several different rifles...kinda just for the heck of it. I don't remember the numbers for sure, but 16" and 18" were definitely at or below 2800. My Rem700 with the long (24" I think) barrel pushed them over 3000, but I don't think it was 3240.

I don't plan on shooting any of this more than 200yd (50-100 is much more likely), so it shouldn't be a big issue. It would have been nice if it was all really really the same.

Ammo Jon said:
The one in the white box, make sure to never resell.

Honestly, I can't understand how anyone could bring themselves to sell their own ammo anyway :innocent0

That was from an ever bigger red box. It was a WallyWorld special that was two of those boxes wrapped together for even cheaper (still not AJ prices...but a little closer). The outer box looked just like the new version of the red box that I posted. The part that is magic markered out (not by me, it came that way) said, "55 grain jacketed hollow point."

Ammo Jon · Dec 24, 2019

Art3 said:
Honestly, I can't understand how anyone could bring themselves to sell their own ammo anyway

It’s emotional.
https://media1.giphy.com/media/94EQmVHkveNck/source.gif

WildWeasel · Dec 24, 2019

Ammo Jon said:
The one in the white box, make sure to never resell.

Lol

danb said:
They will not chrono the same out of the same rifle, dont ask me how I know. I have the three boxes on the bottom. My carbine likes these. Inside 200 yards at steel they are effectively equivalent (you may not shoot well enough to tell), but the chrono tells the tale. I suspect that they have changed powders over time - even if they chrono the same out of their test barrel (20"?), out of a carbine they seem to be different. Out of a carbine (16") am not getting anything remotely close to 3240fps - I got more like 2850 for the red/blue box on the left), and about 75 fps more from the black box on the right. YMMV. Like I said, depends on the application. If you are shooting steel inside 200yds you will not notice much change in zero.

Even lot to lot of ammo can change. Precision shooters will buy as much of the same lot as they need to last for some time, then verify zero with a new lot. Though modern loads are pretty close for the most part. If you're just plinking OP, it should be good enough.

Pinecone · Dec 24, 2019

SKIP said:
As a reloader I avoided Federal not knowing if they had crimped primers. There are so many flavors to choose from.
Is it correct to say .223 Rem is not crimped but 5,56 is crimped?

No, the difference between the two is the max allowable pressure.

Most all "commercial" ammo is not crimped.

Federal does sell XM193, which is basically over run from Lake City plant. That would most likely have crimped primers.

But only way to tell, is shoot some and pop out the primers.

OLM-Medic · Jan 6, 2020

WildWeasel said:
Lol

Even lot to lot of ammo can change. Precision shooters will buy as much of the same lot as they need to last for some time, then verify zero with a new lot. Though modern loads are pretty close for the most part. If you're just plinking OP, it should be good enough.

Yep. It's worse depending on the caliber. With .223 I experienced missing by a foot or two at 600y just by changing lot numbers.

ken792 · Jan 6, 2020

Pinecone said:
No, the difference between the two is the max allowable pressure.

Most all "commercial" ammo is not crimped.

Federal does sell XM193, which is basically over run from Lake City plant. That would most likely have crimped primers.

But only way to tell, is shoot some and pop out the primers.

Both .223 and 5.56 have the same max pressure in their respective chambers and when measured with the same or very similar methods. NATO EPVAT for 5.56 and CIP for .223 both prescribe 430 mPa. US SCATP for its 5.56 NATO and SAAMI for .223 are both 380 mPa. The difference is where and how the pressure sensors are placed in the test barrels. NATO EPVAT is very similar to CIP's methodology while the US' SCATP is very similar to SAAMI's. Of course, if you put .223 in a 5.56 chamber, it will read lower than if it were in a .223 chamber and vice versa.

A lot of Federal commercial .223 has crimped primers though. I think it might just be the hunting ammo that wouldn't have it. The AE223 in the black box and dark red box have FC over 223 on the headstamp with a crimped primer last time I used them. For the green and blue boxes, I generally see LC NATO marked brass with both ring crimps and stab crimps for the primers. I think I've seen some green box AE with brass that LC ## over 5.56mm headstamps plus ring crimps.

erwos · Jan 6, 2020

If you want M193 velocities, you need to buy genuine M193-marked ammo or something known to be hot like Wolf Gold. AE223 is known to have significantly lower velocities, as will most other bulk 55gr commercial ammo, especially steel-case.

Art3 · Jan 6, 2020

Ammo Jon made the colors of the other boxes moot for a while

motorcoachdoug · Jan 7, 2020

I have some russian 223 ammo which i use when I am plinking away.. One thing for sure is russia does know how to make ammo with a big bang!

Biggfoot44 · Jan 7, 2020

Generally speaking , Generic product lines could be whatever is most cost effective for the mfg on that day . Could be Mil Spec overrun . Could be " regular priced " ammo overrun . Could be cosmetic rejects of either . If produced on purpose as generic, probably won't be crimped or sealed .

Bikebreath · Jan 7, 2020

Art3 said:
Ammo Jon made the colors of the other boxes moot for a while
View attachment 274874

Moot perhaps, but not mute will all that ammo.

Nice thread with lots of good info. I consider a technical posts to be good if they talk over my head...and I'm talking mPa, ok?

Is this Federal 223 Ammo all the same?

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