Anyone running .224 Valkyrie?

Jimbob2.0 · Jun 16, 2018

I have been getting more intrigued with these AR "super calibers" just got parts for a modest starter Grendel build and looking at Valkyrie. The ballistics look phenomenal past 300 yards.

Anyone have one? Deciding whether to build or just buy a complete Savage or other moderately priced decent maker.

jimbobborg · Jun 16, 2018

This is on my radar. But with my firearms ADHD, it's on a pretty long list of stuff to try. I'd like to get a 20" barrel and an A2 stock set up, so it matches my 20" 6.8 SPC build.

lazarus · Jun 16, 2018

jimbobborg said:
This is on my radar. But with my firearms ADHD, it's on a pretty long list of stuff to try. I'd like to get a 20" barrel and an A2 stock set up, so it matches my 20" 6.8 SPC build.

I am looking at more like a 22”. I’d go 24”, but I just can’t bring myself to get a pencil barrel and even if it is a bench gun, I don’t want some 14lb monster. I’ll see if I can pick out when it is “time” for me to build one.

It’s on my radar, but I almost never shoot past 200yds. So it is really far down my list. If that changes, it’ll jump up the list a lot. I’ve got an 18” Grendel AR-15 I built that is pretty accurate that could likely do 1000yds and certainly the 500yds as the furthest I’ve ever shot in my life.

A Ruger American or Howa 1500 in 6.5 Grendel and also .223 are higher on my list (as are about half a dozen other guns).

High interest, just too much else competing for my interest, safe space and dollars right now.

One of my biggest issues is if I wanted to use it for hunting, the build wouldn’t be optimized for range. If ootimized for range it wouldn’t be as good for hunting. And for hunting, if medium game, it frankly isn’t really much better than .223. Yes it carries somewhat more energy, but it is basically a slightly deeper penetrating .223. 6.5 Grendel would both be carrying more energy at sane hunting distances and create a significantly larger wound channel.

Jimbob2.0 · Jun 16, 2018

lazarus said:
I am looking at more like a 22”. I’d go 24”, but I just can’t bring myself to get a pencil barrel and even if it is a bench gun, I don’t want some 14lb monster. I’ll see if I can pick out when it is “time” for me to build one.

It’s on my radar, but I almost never shoot past 200yds. So it is really far down my list. If that changes, it’ll jump up the list a lot. I’ve got an 18” Grendel AR-15 I built that is pretty accurate that could likely do 1000yds and certainly the 500yds as the furthest I’ve ever shot in my life.

A Ruger American or Howa 1500 in 6.5 Grendel and also .223 are higher on my list (as are about half a dozen other guns).

High interest, just too much else competing for my interest, safe space and dollars right now.

One of my biggest issues is if I wanted to use it for hunting, the build wouldn’t be optimized for range. If ootimized for range it wouldn’t be as good for hunting. And for hunting, if medium game, it frankly isn’t really much better than .223. Yes it carries somewhat more energy, but it is basically a slightly deeper penetrating .223. 6.5 Grendel would both be carrying more energy at sane hunting distances and create a significantly larger wound channel.

Ive been looking at this one. https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/MSR15ReconLRP

CodeWarrior1241 · Jun 17, 2018

lazarus said:
A Ruger American or Howa 1500 in 6.5 Grendel and also .223 are higher on my list (as are about half a dozen other guns).

Exactly the same situation! I'm looking to build a How mini action 6.5 Grendel first before looking at other calibers.

For medium range 500-800yd, which is the furthest I'm ever at, having a caliber that works in a mini action and doesn't call for a short action is most ideal. However, having a viable hunting load in the same caliber for 200yd and under, which 224 is not, is a bonus!

My question for 224 users is this - is there an equivalent to Wolf 6.5 that's cheap for plinking, is performance under 800yd exceed 6.5 Grendel, and also does barrel length beyond 20" matter in 224?

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lazarus · Jun 17, 2018

Nothing yet for cheap steel ammo in .224 and if were to guess, it’ll be at least a couple of years before there is supposing popularity stays high. 6.8SPC still doesn’t and Grendel only does because it has become popular in Europe and Russia (a lot of Euro popularity is because it isn’t a military caliber, so it is legal, but can chamber in anything a .223 could with a new bolt and barrel).

That said, it looks like AE 75gr TMJ can be bad for around $9.99 a box of 20 with some regularity. Cheaper than brass case Grendel (cheapest I can find is hronaday Alerican gunner from sportsman’s guide (they have an exclusive) which is $129.99 and free shipping for an ammo can of 200 123gr HPBT).

Rifleshooter has you covered on barrel length.

https://rifleshooter.com/2018/02/224-valkyrie-effect-of-barrel-length-on-velocity/

For 60gr, anything over 24” is a waste.

Otherwise with all weights the longer the barrel length the better and it is a rather linear drop. For the 90gr it is a pretty consistent 25fps per inch. In really short barrels the drop off may be faster loss.

So a 20” should be fine if all you want is a medium range target gun or a varmit shooter. If you want a >1000yd gun, the longer the better as every extra inch is likely to result in a few less inches of drop and wind drift at 1000yds.

That’s largely why I am hoping whenever I can get around to it I can build a 22” gun. I’ll likely never actually use it as a varmiter or coyote gun, but I’d like to leave my options open. I don’t care to carry the weight and size of something in a semi action with a >22” Barrel. Especially because I’d probably go some kind of medium to heavy barrel as a compensation on long strings with bench shooting.

davsco · Jun 18, 2018

i just built a valk, on a mega billet upper & lower and a rainier ultramatch 24" 7.5 twist barrel, +2 gas, jp brake, timney trigger. easily sub-moa (just 3 shot groups) out to 400 using federal gold medal 90, longest I've measured so far. most say the twist rate is too slow for the 90's but so far so good. i got this for the prs gas gun series where 800yds is generally the max distance.

Jimbob2.0 · Jun 18, 2018

davsco said:
i just built a valk, on a mega billet upper & lower and a rainier ultramatch 24" 7.5 twist barrel, +2 gas, jp brake, timney trigger. easily sub-moa (just 3 shot groups) out to 400 using federal gold medal 90, longest I've measured so far. most say the twist rate is too slow for the 90's but so far so good. i got this for the prs gas gun series where 800yds is generally the max distance.

Cool, this is one where I don't mind handloading for low round count. By far not my first or only AR. The caliber is fascinating for the bench.

All and all Id prefer the Grendel if I was hunting anything other than long range varmints.

OLM-Medic · Jun 21, 2018

I must be missing something because I don't understand the point of this round

CodeWarrior1241 · Jun 21, 2018

OLM-Medic said:
I must be missing something because I don't understand the point of this round

It seems that if you have to use 22 Cal bullets out of a benchrest AR but you really want better performance than normal 223 that would usually fit, then you go Valk. Not sure why otherwise. For bolts, unless you want compatibility with a Valk AR, doesn't seem like it's too useful.

I found 6.5CM to be a gentle recoiling round vs 308, so no real sense making a short action for something smaller. I bought a Howa mini action in 6.5 Grendel instead, it has mags compatible with my Howa mini action in 7.62x39.

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Z_Man · Jun 21, 2018

OLM-Medic said:
I must be missing something because I don't understand the point of this round

The point of the round is 1000 yard + type performance with an AR 15 lower and hardware instead of an ar10 lower. The 90gr match rounds are supersonic out to 1200 ish yards.

So if you have a bunch o ar15 lowers its a relatively easy way to get into the 1000 yard club.

I imagine it would be a decent medium game round out to 400 yards or so. If it sticks around itll be popular in 3 gun as it shoots super flat.

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Jimbob2.0 · Jun 21, 2018

Z_Man said:
The point of the round is 1000 yard + type performance with an AR 15 lower and hardware instead of an ar10 lower. The 90gr match rounds are supersonic out to 1200 ish yards.

So if you have a bunch o ar15 lowers its a relatively easy way to get into the 1000 yard club.

I imagine it would be a decent medium game round out to 400 yards or so. If it sticks around itll be popular in 3 gun as it shoots super flat.

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Good summary. This isn't a good choice for a "jack of all trades" round ole 5.56 and .300 fill that gap, add 6.5 and its full. This is a long range bench round out of an AR platform. Best only if you have other more "general" guns in your portfolio.

OLM-Medic · Jun 22, 2018

Z_Man said:
The point of the round is 1000 yard + type performance with an AR 15 lower and hardware instead of an ar10 lower. The 90gr match rounds are supersonic out to 1200 ish yards.

So if you have a bunch o ar15 lowers its a relatively easy way to get into the 1000 yard club.

I imagine it would be a decent medium game round out to 400 yards or so. If it sticks around itll be popular in 3 gun as it shoots super flat.

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I can see that, but I thought 6.5 Grendel would fill that role decently.

lazarus · Jun 22, 2018

Z_Man said:
The point of the round is 1000 yard + type performance with an AR 15 lower and hardware instead of an ar10 lower. The 90gr match rounds are supersonic out to 1200 ish yards.

So if you have a bunch o ar15 lowers its a relatively easy way to get into the 1000 yard club.

I imagine it would be a decent medium game round out to 400 yards or so. If it sticks around itll be popular in 3 gun as it shoots super flat.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

The problem is, .22 cal is just awfully small for medium game, period. Shot placement become so much more important and accurate or not, 400yds is way too far to be hunting with a .22 cal on medium game.

That doesn’t mean you couldn’t, but with all of the literal hundred plus other choices out there for medium game it would be towards the bottom of the barrel.

Any of the “sixes” that you can find an AR-15 chambered in would be much better at any distance you could make a shot at than .224V for medium game.

lazarus · Jun 22, 2018

OLM-Medic said:
I can see that, but I thought 6.5 Grendel would fill that role decently.

It can and does. .224V is a bit better at very long distances. If you compare BCs, velocity, etc. the 90gr rounds have a small advantage against 6.5 Grendel on bullet drop, but are actually a little worse on wind drift vs the best grendel rounds. And you do have that slight extra range of about 1200yds where as 6.5 Grendel is going to tap out a little past 1000yds. Maybe 1100 with a very long barrel (like >24”).

But 6.5 Grendel has more energy out to even extreme range. And that wider wound cavity when it does hit something. Though it wouldn’t penetrate as deep. That said, 6.5 Grendel penetration doesn’t seem to be an issue.

It’s a significantly better round for medium game. A .224V would be a much better choice for a varmiter and again, >600yds it can have some advantages.

But it still seems to be a solution in search of a problem. It’s performance at 1000yds is trivially better than 6.5 Grendel (on drop, not drift). Yes another 200yds in range is nice, but how many here have access to a 1000yd range? Okay, now how many have access to a range that goes to 1100 or 1200?

It would be somewhat cheaper to reload for.

I am interested just because it seems to be gaining some steam and I’ve been wanting to build something really flat shooting and loading up .224V with some 67/69gr HPBT or THPBT match rounds sounds like it would be super flat shooting. But also a bit meh. The 6.5 grendel I built can do just about everything .224V can do and the things I care about the most like deer hunting it can do a lot better.

Jerry M · Jun 23, 2018

lazarus said:
...But it still seems to be a solution in search of a problem...

Exactly! What happened to the WSSM's (.223, .243, and .25)? They seem to have the problem of more horsepower and longer range on an AR-15 platform solved years ago. Except brass is only now becoming available available after about a 7-10 year hiatus... But that is not the cartridges efficiency problem, but the manufactures.

There are so many seeming good cartridges available for this platform, Take the 6 mm HAGAR for instance, it appears to have come and gone without fanfare. Even though it was an effective cartridge that did what it was advertised to do.

While I use my AR for prairie dog shooting, I am interested in purchasing a new upper in a caliber with more energy for hogs. I still have not made up my mind. While the .224 Valkyrie will surely kill a hog, it is not it. The quest continues.

Good luck

Jerry

dist1646 · Jun 23, 2018

The HAGAR was and is an excellent round. The thing that hurt it the most was the shortages that happened at the time the HAGAR was introduced. Brass was either formed through a long and tedious process or later on, you could buy excellent quality Hornady brass from limited sources. If the timing would have been different and factory ammo had been produced, I think it would have proved to be very popular.

The .223 Valkyrie is not all that impressive to me. I thought it would have been better if it had been necked up to 6mm. I asked White Oak about the possibility of doing just that and their response was that it is so close to their 6mm WOA that it is just not worth it to them.

The main issue with the Valkyrie as I see it is the rate of twist necessary to stabilize the heavier bullets. This has been an issue for some time with the uber heavy bullets in the .223 cartridge. WOA has confirmed that twist rates currently touted in production Valkyrie barrels are marginal for stabilizing the heavies. They plan to increase the twist rates in future production for their barrels.

For extreme distances, the larger caliber bolt guns still rule.

lazarus · Jun 24, 2018

dist1646 said:
The HAGAR was and is an excellent round. The thing that hurt it the most was the shortages that happened at the time the HAGAR was introduced. Brass was either formed through a long and tedious process or later on, you could buy excellent quality Hornady brass from limited sources. If the timing would have been different and factory ammo had been produced, I think it would have proved to be very popular.

The .223 Valkyrie is not all that impressive to me. I thought it would have been better if it had been necked up to 6mm. I asked White Oak about the possibility of doing just that and their response was that it is so close to their 6mm WOA that it is just not worth it to them.

The main issue with the Valkyrie as I see it is the rate of twist necessary to stabilize the heavier bullets. This has been an issue for some time with the uber heavy bullets in the .223 cartridge. WOA has confirmed that twist rates currently touted in production Valkyrie barrels are marginal for stabilizing the heavies. They plan to increase the twist rates in future production for their barrels.

For extreme distances, the larger caliber bolt guns still rule.

Yeah, honestly if you wanted be longer range performance a 6mm SPC or 6mm Grendel (doesn’t one of those exist?) seem like a better way to go. You’ve got some nice long bullets already available for you and better overall energy than .224V could provide. Probably similar extended range of .224V and a lot less wind drift. Better for medium game. Etc.

But whatever. It is what we have. Want AR-15 and a great medium game cartridge, get 6.8SPC, 6.5G or .300BO (or heck 7.62x39). Want one with some medium range performance, 6.5/6.8. Want subs, .300BO. Want long range performance 6.5G.

I am still curious, especially if prices push down a little more on loaded cartridges and if things stabilize (pardon the pun) on fast twist rates for better heavy bullet stabilization and long range accuracy.

dist1646 · Jun 24, 2018

Looking at some recently published load data from Sierra, the 77gr data is pretty much the same as we have been using in the .223. Other than using the really heavy bullets at mag length, I don't see the point of the Valkyrie. :sad20:

Jimbob2.0 · Jun 24, 2018

You guys are definitely talking me out of it for now at least unless I see a upper on sale at a price I cant walk away from.

Anyone running .224 Valkyrie?

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