AAR: Green Ops Defensive Kalashnikov - Culpeper, VA 8/29/2021

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  • erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Full post at the blog:
    https://thehebrewhammer.net/2021/08/31/green-ops-defensive-kalashnikov-aar/

    This was originally stood up as a "defensive carbine 1, but with cheaper ammo" course, but that's now overtaken by events, so I'm not sure they're going to offer this again anytime soon. It was a nice AK-based take on the usual AR-centric defensive carbine 1 material, and I did learn a couple clever tricks at it.

    Didn't learn to love my AKs, though... shot timers rendered nostalgia dead for me, I guess.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Sounds like a fun class.

    I love AKs, but they are just not competitive with ARs when it comes to ergonomics, safety manipulation, and magazine changes. And they certainly malfunction on occasion when run hard, just like every other firearm. Or they are so overgassed that they are slowly beating the rear trunnion out of the receiver, in which case you will eventually need a new AK when the back end, recoil springs, too cover, bcg, and gas piston come flying out.

    Not hating on AKs, just being honest about their drawbacks. But they sure are a lot of fun to run. Especially in 7.62x39.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    It was a fun class, but it's also hard to screw up running and gunning short of safety issues.

    Yeah, they're obsolescent guns in my book, too. The Galil's thumb selector does take a lot of the hassle out of it, but you're still beholden to racking the charging handle on every reload, which is annoying compared to just mashing the LRBHO paddle. I know the AK bois on the 'gram can do a 1.5s AK reload on their fifteenth try and then post it, but I just don't think it beats an AR-15 for handling. Hell, I don't even think it beats my K-T SU-16D9. :P
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I don’t understand Instagram gun culture. For competition purposes, it is hard to argue that the AK is obsolescent or obsolete compared to the AR. The position just is not justifiable.

    But to play devils advocate: I’ll just preempt a 6 month necro by pointing out that from a small unit tactics perspective, Instagram worthy reloads don’t matter unless something is going terribly wrong. Thanks to modern front ends and optics mounts, it is possible to get optics, lights, lasers, non shitty sling mounts, etc on AKs, though they are typically much more cramped than on ARs. So on the battlefield, AKs are still more than capable firearms, even the old ones. They are better than obsolescent here, but still behind the curve.

    Unfortunately, working in and around structures is where they show there age. Due to relatively recently developed western style firearms safety procedures that depend upon being able to actuate a safety efficiently as part of bringing up your rifle to aim. And then there is the recoil of AKs vs ARs, even ones chambered in the same cartridge: splits don’t lie, and fast accurate follow up shots save lives. Minor point: monopoding off the magazine is annoying with an AK and easy with an AR if you need to do it. Also modern AK mag pouches are a pain compared to AR mag pouches.

    Alright I think that is enough rambling. If green ops runs another one of these classes when I am home, I will definitely sign up for it. I want to see how my Draco equipped with a Krebs ambi safety, SLR rail, LPVO, flashlight, and suppressor does. As in, will I regret bringing an 11lb pistol/future SBR (once paperwork clears) to a fighting rifle class. Culpepper is close to where I live, so the location is right.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    I always said that if I had my personal illiterate peasant conscript army , the ultimate weapon to arm them would be SKS . If I had illiterate peasant conscript army , and I didn't care about the ammo expense , then AK .

    Constantly flicking safeties on and off is a recent western concept . In the WWII era they didn't particularly care , they engaged the safety after the engagement / operations were completed . In the simpler era , they were more concerned about shooting at the enemy than the occasional AD .

    Just like Mini 14 , judge AK by their own merits , instead of default considering them deficient AR's .
     

    sajidakh

    Active Member
    Dec 28, 2010
    981
    Take the AR and AK into the minus 40 tundra and your view on which platform you prefer will change quickly.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Constantly flicking safeties on and off is a recent western concept . In the WWII era they didn't particularly care , they engaged the safety after the engagement / operations were completed . In the simpler era , they were more concerned about shooting at the enemy than the occasional AD .

    Just like Mini 14 , judge AK by their own merits , instead of default considering them deficient AR's .
    You can also find lots of WWII era photos of American soldiers pointing firearms in unsafe directions (often at each other). Modern firearms safety practices evolved as a result of instructors’ (Jeff Cooper being the most famous among them) experiences in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. They exist for good reason. Further, equating antiquated safety practices to winning wars is ridiculous. I assure you, no manner of WWII era grit would have won the day if those poor souls had been saddled with modern era leadership.

    As to evaluating a firearm on its own merits vs comparing, I don’t understand your argument. If I’m evaluating a firearm for efficacy and suitability, I am going to attempt to develop a standardized course of fire and maneuver to give me the most objective evaluation possible. If your point is that AKs are better for low education conscript armies than ARs, sure. I don’t think that argument has a lot of merit in relation to the topic at hand, but I agree with you.

    Take the AR and AK into the minus 40 tundra and your view on which platform you prefer will change quickly.
    I live in Virginia. The cold weather performance of the AK directly relates to its heavily overgassed nature and operating system, both of which have been incorporated into more modern designs with better ergonomics.

    I love AKs, but don’t see much point in sugarcoating their deficiencies. I think it’s better to be honest about what they do well and what they don’t do well, and leave it up to the end user to decide.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    I wasn't saying if old school or absolute safety first was better , just explaining how things were viewed in the day , and the designs and doctrines that resulted .

    AKs and ARs are ...... Different .If your requirements and druthers favor a particular set of design criteria , by all means standardize on it .

    But with 100 million Kalashnikov in service over 70 plus years, in literally uncountable number of wars , in every imaginable conditions, , it is obviously also a viable service rifle . You could make the point that it is better as a general issue service rifle , than for action shooting competition , and be right .

    And , I feel strange in that I would personally prefer A2 and later version AR over AK , but no disputing AK's real world success .
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I wasn't saying if old school or absolute safety first was better , just explaining how things were viewed in the day , and the designs and doctrines that resulted .

    AKs and ARs are ...... Different .If your requirements and druthers favor a particular set of design criteria , by all means standardize on it .

    But with 100 million Kalashnikov in service over 70 plus years, in literally uncountable number of wars , in every imaginable conditions, , it is obviously also a viable service rifle . You could make the point that it is better as a general issue service rifle , than for action shooting competition , and be right .

    And , I feel strange in that I would personally prefer A2 and later version AR over AK , but no disputing AK's real world success .
    Gotcha, thank you for clarifying.

    As far as AKs go, I think they are worth learning to shoot and use well.
     

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