Baird v Bercerra

wolfwood · Apr 9, 2019

New CA open carry case filed

https://www.scribd.com/document/405650450/Mark-Baird-Complaint-Filed

xKtF · Apr 9, 2019

Thanks and posting so I can get updates.

delaware_export · Apr 9, 2019

Well if cc is a privilege you must Apply, qualify and pay for, then that only leaves open carry for normal citizens.

It will get to the question is ANY carry protected. And the 9th has already said NO to cc.

Good luck to this guy. It would be interesting to see cali change either way.

Allow open carry and the fall out issues would make their heads asplode. And how many would get swatted in the process.

I think they’d almost prefer cc for the out of sight/mind factor.

And what about making one form of carry free, so as not to tax the right. Their choice.

danb · Apr 9, 2019

ok, dumb question. Given the status of Young why file this?

jcutonilli · Apr 10, 2019

danb said:
ok, dumb question. Given the status of Young why file this?

Young is HI this case is CA. Might as well start things while Young is waiting.

danb · Apr 10, 2019

jcutonilli said:
Young is HI this case is CA. Might as well start things while Young is waiting.

But in both case, 9th circuit precedent would be binding, unless SCT takes a case.

Inigoes · Apr 10, 2019

danb said:
But in both case, 9th circuit precedent would be binding, unless SCT takes a case.

Think positive! Young has a good chance, after they painted themselves in a corner with Peruta.

gamer_jim · Apr 10, 2019

Isnt this how IL got cc?

Court ruled OC was a right and then legislatures quickly passed cc?

What's from stopping us from doing this in MD?

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Inigoes · Apr 10, 2019

gamer_jim said:
What's from stopping us from doing this in MD?

We need to get the 4CA to recognize open carry is part of the core 2A right.

danb · Apr 10, 2019

Inigoes said:
Think positive! Young has a good chance, after they painted themselves in a corner with Peruta.

Yes, but its been vacated and on hold pending NYSRPA. All outcomes in the 9th are going to have to wait. If the courts react to NYSRPA and decide the original 3-judge panel in Peruta is correct, CA and HI have to allow some manner of carry (which actually seems correct to me), open carry could be off the table.

Inigoes · Apr 10, 2019

danb said:
Yes, but its been vacated and on hold pending NYSRPA. All outcomes in the 9th are going to have to wait. If the courts react to NYSRPA and decide the original 3-judge panel in Peruta is correct, CA and HI have to allow some manner of carry (which actually seems correct to me), open carry could be off the table.

I disagree, open carry is the only thing on the table, since the 9CA en-banc panel opined that concealed carry is not part of the 2A right.

Since there are basically two forms of carry (open or concealed), also "and bear" is core to the 2A. Open carry is their only logical out.

That is, unless the 9CA wants to eliminate the "and bear" from "keep and bear arms" from the 2A.

danb · Apr 10, 2019

Inigoes said:
I disagree, open carry is the only thing on the table, since the 9CA en-banc panel opined that concealed carry is not part of the 2A right.

Since there are basically two forms of carry (open or concealed), also "and bear" is core to the 2A. Open carry is their only logical out.

That is, unless the 9CA wants to eliminate the "and bear" from "keep and bear arms" from the 2A.

This case wont see an appellate panel until after NYSRPA, and Young. En banc panel already punted on open carry.

Kharn · Apr 10, 2019

gamer_jim said:
Isnt this how IL got cc?

Court ruled OC was a right and then legislatures quickly passed cc?

What's from stopping us from doing this in MD?

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Maryland's permit covers both concealed and open carry.

press1280 · Apr 10, 2019

Inigoes said:
I disagree, open carry is the only thing on the table, since the 9CA en-banc panel opined that concealed carry is not part of the 2A right.

Since there are basically two forms of carry (open or concealed), also "and bear" is core to the 2A. Open carry is their only logical out.

That is, unless the 9CA wants to eliminate the "and bear" from "keep and bear arms" from the 2A.

That may be the case at the moment, however, I wonder if the NYSRPA may change everything if they rule text, history, and tradition is the proper test and not intermediate scrutiny which is what almost all these cases have in common.

danb · Apr 10, 2019

press1280 said:
That may be the case at the moment, however, I wonder if the NYSRPA may change everything if they rule text, history, and tradition is the proper test and not intermediate scrutiny which is what almost all these cases have in common.

I think that is exactly what SCT will do. Since Kavanaugh, a lot of Supreme Court briefs on both sides have started to espouse "text history and tradition"- not simply on gun cases. Death penalty, 5th amendment cases.... "Text history and tradition" are the new old buzzwords

Blacksmith101 · Apr 12, 2019

Can someone provide a cliff notes explanation of the relative rankings and differences of the various levels of scrutiny?

xKtF · Apr 12, 2019

Blacksmith101 said:
Can someone provide a cliff notes explanation of the relative rankings and differences of the various levels of scrutiny?

https://www.subscriptlaw.com/blog/levels-of-scrutiny this is what I found, maybe someone can link you to something better though

Inigoes · Apr 12, 2019

press1280 said:
That may be the case at the moment, however, I wonder if the NYSRPA may change everything if they rule text, history, and tradition is the proper test and not intermediate scrutiny which is what almost all these cases have in common.

Hopefully we will here from the SCOTUS, and not the DIG ("dismissed as improvidently granted").

Nobody · Apr 12, 2019

Kharn said:
Maryland's permit covers both concealed and open carry.

Optimum word there being " permit" i believe the thinking there is if you are not"shall" issue then you must allow open carry as some sort of carry should be allowed.

I could be wrong.

Nobody

danb · Apr 12, 2019

Nobody said:
Optimum word there being " permit" i believe the thinking there is if you are not"shall" issue then you must allow open carry as some sort of carry should be allowed.

I could be wrong.

Nobody

Sort of. Maryland permit is for handguns. Open carry of long guns is legal although I would not recommend it outside of hunting season. This was a point Doogie made to the 4th.

The catch is that at the county or city level open carry of long guns may not be legal in places like Baltimore, but is legal in rural areas. So while the state does not prohibit it, localities do.

A secondary question is: if some form of carry is allowed, does it need to be handguns?

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