Help a newbie play deal or no deal: Greener GP 12 or Swedish Mauser

woodline · Apr 18, 2017

Hi all. I hope this thread is appropriate. If not, I sincerely apologise. I tried to search for the information I need, but have not been able to find it.

I was out and about today and found two C&R rifles and a shotgun of interest.

Greener GP 12 gauge 32" barrel in very good condition $600

Karl Gustavs M96 in 6.5x55 with mostly matching (bottom metal for sure does not match) serials, very good condition otherwise. $599

Waffenfabrik Mauser M96 (I think . . . Labeled as C96 but clearly not the C96 I'm thinking of) all matching that I can see in good/very good condition EXCEPT the barrel has been threaded $410.

Are any of these a good deal? My gut says not really on the M96s, but Google is failing me on the Greener GP 12. I love the shotguns, but haven't actually seen one for sale before. I'm willing to explore paying $600ish for this shotgun, but I have no idea if that is a fair appraisal of value.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

iH8DemLibz · Apr 18, 2017

The 600 dollar non-matching M96 is not a good deal.

Don't know about the other two.

MilsurpDan · Apr 18, 2017

Personally I'd go after the Mauser Oberndorf Swede M96. Mauser made M96 rifles for Sweden from 1898-1900 if I remember right. They carry a slight premium over regular Carl Gustaf M96's. The barrel threading is common. The Swedes did it in order to attach a blank firing adapter. My Finnish marked M96 is threaded also. $410 is a decent price if all matching, original and the bore is good. Take note of the stock disc when you look at it. It'll tell you the bore condition.

woodline · Apr 18, 2017

MilsurpDan said:
Personally I'd go after the Mauser Oberndorf Swede M96. Mauser made M96 rifles for Sweden from 1898-1900 if I remember right. They carry a slight premium over regular Carl Gustaf M96's. The barrel threading is common. The Swedes did it in order to attach a blank firing adapter. My Finnish marked M96 is threaded also. $410 is a decent price if all matching, original and the bore is good. Take note of the stock disc when you look at it. It'll tell you the bore condition.

This is why I posted. To me I saw a 1900 M96 with bubba-looking threading. Thanks for setting me straight. I'll take another look tomorrow. That one was at the same place as the Greener. Maybe I can get a deal if I buy both. I can find prices from a couple years back suggesting $500 was the going rate, though I can't tell if that's for a 12 gauge or one of the centerfire chamberings. It was pretty darn good looking though.

mawkie · Apr 19, 2017

There is a threaded muzzle cap that would have come on the C96 to protect the threads when accessories like the blank fire adapter weren't in use. Many times this cap is lost. Dan is right, at $410 the C96 is the better deal of the two Swedes. Price is good for a non-matching example in good or better condition. The other at $600 is on the high end and would have to be matching in excellent condition to warrant the coin.
I'm not a Greener collector, that's a whole different kettle of fish that would require some additional research.

Biggfoot44 · Apr 19, 2017

The Greener Police Shotgun was mfg from circa 1920- circa 1975 . Built upon the Martini-Henry action, as used British Service Rifle before the .303 .

It was designed to provide a certian level of usefulness for Colonial Police Forces for crowd control and prison gaurds, yet have mimimal usefulness to insurgents should they be captured, stolen, or otherwise aquired by rebels.

To that end, most of them were chambered for propritary ctgs of 14ga, and a bottlenecked 13ga that only fire withe the gun's 3 point firing pin.

Most of then look as if they had served in an Egyptian prison for 75yrs, with scared wood and patina on the metal.

There were Export 12ga, chambered for conventional 2.75in, marketed in the US in the 1930s, primarily to LE and corrections. Reportedly at least some of the Royal Hong Kong Police were also conventional 12ga.

tallen702 · Apr 19, 2017

http://www.bluebookofgunvalues.com/...px?id=WW_GREENER_LIMITED_SHOTGUNS_SINGLE_SHOT

GENERAL PURPOSE (GP Mk I)
12 ga., improved Martini action, 26, 28, 30, 32, or 34 in. barrel, full or mod., auto ejector, straight hand stock, was also produced as a Multi-choke shotgun with a set of five interchangeable chokes and as a Trap model with raised ventilated rib and better quality stock. Disc. 1967.
Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60%
$330 $300 $275 $225 $195 $165 $160
Add 50%-100% for Trap models and for multi-choke models if they retain their set of interchangeable chokes.

GP MK II
12 ga. only, famed general purpose (GP) English shotgun configuration featuring Greener Martini action, 28 or 30 in. barrel, walnut stock and forearm. Disc. 1999.
Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60%
$525 $450 $400 $350 $300 $250 $195

Older, used military contract variations of this model may be offered for sale - typically seen in the $165-$200 range.
Many of these have shaped chambers and three pronged firing pins which can only be used with special ammunition which is no longer made or available. These guns may not be suitable for conversion for use with modern ammunition.

Even if that is a Mk-II and 100% in grading, $600 is still too high by quite a bit.

woodline · Apr 19, 2017

tallen702 said:
http://www.bluebookofgunvalues.com/...px?id=WW_GREENER_LIMITED_SHOTGUNS_SINGLE_SHOT

GENERAL PURPOSE (GP Mk I)
12 ga., improved Martini action, 26, 28, 30, 32, or 34 in. barrel, full or mod., auto ejector, straight hand stock, was also produced as a Multi-choke shotgun with a set of five interchangeable chokes and as a Trap model with raised ventilated rib and better quality stock. Disc. 1967.
Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60%
$330 $300 $275 $225 $195 $165 $160
Add 50%-100% for Trap models and for multi-choke models if they retain their set of interchangeable chokes.

GP MK II
12 ga. only, famed general purpose (GP) English shotgun configuration featuring Greener Martini action, 28 or 30 in. barrel, walnut stock and forearm. Disc. 1999.
Grading 100% 98% 95% 90% 80% 70% 60%
$525 $450 $400 $350 $300 $250 $195

Older, used military contract variations of this model may be offered for sale - typically seen in the $165-$200 range.
Many of these have shaped chambers and three pronged firing pins which can only be used with special ammunition which is no longer made or available. These guns may not be suitable for conversion for use with modern ammunition.

Even if that is a Mk-II and 100% in grading, $600 is still too high by quite a bit.

Yeah I saw the same. I'm pretty confident it is a plain ol MKI, given the 32" barrel. There are no interchangeable chokes with it. Will look to see if it is a trap model. The guy who has it on consignment apparently used it to hunt for years, so I expect it doesn't have the 3 prong firing pin. I'll stop by the store again today and see how much wiggle room is in the price. I am willing to pay a little over market value for it simply for the novelty and relative uniqueness, but double market value is not in the realm of realism.

tallen702 · Apr 19, 2017

fbi_surveillance_van said:
Yeah I saw the same. I'm pretty confident it is a plain ol MKI, given the 32" barrel. There are no interchangeable chokes with it. Will look to see if it is a trap model. The guy who has it on consignment apparently used it to hunt for years, so I expect it doesn't have the 3 prong firing pin. I'll stop by the store again today and see how much wiggle room is in the price. I am willing to pay a little over market value for it simply for the novelty and relative uniqueness, but double market value is not in the realm of realism.

Yeah, it's definitely pretty and if it's something you've been looking to find for some time, it might be worth it to you to pay higher than book. I've done that a couple of times for things I simply wasn't willing to wait around for again and again. If the owner used it for hunting, I'm going to assume it's a common bore unless he was loading BP load for it in some obsolete brass case.

woodline · Apr 19, 2017

tallen702 said:
Yeah, it's definitely pretty and if it's something you've been looking to find for some time, it might be worth it to you to pay higher than book. I've done that a couple of times for things I simply wasn't willing to wait around for again and again. If the owner used it for hunting, I'm going to assume it's a common bore unless he was loading BP load for it in some obsolete brass case.

Unfortunately we weren't able to come to an agreement on price for the greener. I did pick up the German Mauser, so thank you all for the save there.

If anyone decides they want this shotgun I would be happy to point you toward the store. They were very gracious toward me and unfortunately they just had too much in the gun for me to be comfortable buying it at their price without some more questions answered. We did measure the barrel and it looks like a 34" MK1 with the case hardening. Attached are a couple more pics with more markings.

tallen702 · Apr 19, 2017

Yep, Mk-I now that I've seen the other side. That .719" is the bore constriction putting it at a fixed "skeet" choke. The 3-1/4 Tons per Square Inch is a proof rating for 7280psi IF they're using the British long-ton, if not, then it'd be less than that. You'd have to be very careful as to what ammo you fed that. Most of my mild target hand-loads weigh in heavier than that. The crown with BNP above the pressure rating is the Birmingham Nitro Proofing mark. Basically it's saying "This is what we've determined is the max safe pressure with smokeless powder." It's a 12ga that will take 2-3/4 shells (last bit of info). Can't make out the last mark by the reciever with the crossed swords. Looks like the Enfield "sold out of service" mark, but doubt it. Possibly armorer's mark? Not 100% sure.

In short, nothing remarkable. Certainly not worth what they were asking for it, especially with that low proof.

woodline · Apr 19, 2017

tallen702 said:
Yep, Mk-I now that I've seen the other side. That .719" is the bore constriction putting it at a fixed "skeet" choke. The 3-1/4 Tons per Square Inch is a proof rating for 7280psi IF they're using the British long-ton, if not, then it'd be less than that. You'd have to be very careful as to what ammo you fed that. Most of my mild target hand-loads weigh in heavier than that. The crown with BNP above the pressure rating is the Birmingham Nitro Proofing mark. Basically it's saying "This is what we've determined is the max safe pressure with smokeless powder." It's a 12ga that will take 2-3/4 shells (last bit of info). Can't make out the last mark by the reciever with the crossed swords. Looks like the Enfield "sold out of service" mark, but doubt it. Possibly armorer's mark? Not 100% sure.

In short, nothing remarkable. Certainly not worth what they were asking for it, especially with that low proof.

You sir, are awesome. Thank you for your knowledge and research on my behalf. The last mark by the receiver with the crossed swords looks to have an X in the left quadrant, a B in the right quadrant, a 3 in the bottom quadrant, and probably nothing in the top quadrant. There is a small nick there but it does not look to be an intentional marking.

This is a great example of why I should have joined MDS a long time ago. Here I was about to pass up a pretty neat 1900 German/Swedish Mauser (one of the 5000 that is referenced on other forums, serial 1924) and overspend on an admittedly still cool to look at shotgun.

fallschirmjaeger · Aug 8, 2017

If this is still available and someone knows of it's location I would very much appreciate the contact information for the store.

Please PM me...thank you!

Help a newbie play deal or no deal: Greener GP 12 or Swedish Mauser

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