Why the Marines have failed to adopt a new sniper rifle in the past 14 years

pbharvey · Jun 14, 2015

why-the-marines-have-failed-to-adopt-a-new-sniper-rifle-in-the-past-14-years

I've never understood why our armed services don't use shared platforms on everything. I was shocked to read that the beefiest rifle marine snipers have is a .308. That makes no sense to me.

BradMacc82 · Jun 14, 2015

Like hell they only have 7.62x51 to call upon.

The M82/M107 (which would be a .50BMG in case anyone forgot

), is still used by the USMC. It's what Reichert used for his mile long shot, and the shot that took out 3 insurgents with 1 round.

5.56blaster · Jun 14, 2015

Because they do a good job at killing bugs dead with what they have now. What makes the grass grow? Blood!

Fox123 · Jun 14, 2015

BradMacc82 said:
Like hell they only have 7.62x51 to call upon.

The M82/M107 (which would be a .50BMG in case anyone forgot ), is still used by the USMC. It's what Reichert used for his mile long shot, and the shot that took out 3 insurgents with 1 round.

This

dist1646 · Jun 14, 2015

The words "marines" and "failed" do not go together!

TheSubieNinja7 · Jun 14, 2015

dist1646 said:
The words "marines" and "failed" do not go together!

That was my thought process upon seeing this thread.

clarksvegas · Jun 14, 2015

Marines were always known to make due with the odds and ends.

One problems is that the Marines are under the Navy. So it's the upper ranks of the Marines have to convince the Navy to give them the money to do thing. further down the line, the sniper corps have to make the argument that they need to upgrade. The article points out that the group is small and turns over alot, so there's not a constant voice uphill to upgrade.

Other problem is that the 4 branches each have their own mission and is left to their own devices to figure out how to do it. So if the Army finally replaces the M16/M4, could be years before the others follow suit. Marines have the extra hurdle of being under the Navy and even the highest ranking Marine still has to 'mother may I' from time to time with his Navy counterpart at the Joint Chief's table.

As yes, i said 4. Coast Guard is DHS and has a whole different role and culture. But they do much the same thing, figure out what they want ask for in order to do their job. And they could be further down the line in adopting something that the other services upgraded to.

friendlyhippo · Jun 14, 2015

dist1646 said:
The words "marines" and "failed" do not go together!

With the exception of "failed to keep their own equipment working properly so they stole stuff from everyone else".

At least having spent 2 trips overseas with them that's been my experience.

Twofer · Jun 14, 2015

http://archive.marinecorpstimes.com...orps-fielding-new-semi-automatic-sniper-rifle

The service recently began equipping scout snipers with the M110 Semi-Automatic Sniper System. Made by Knight's Armament Company in Titusville, Fla., the rifle allows shooters to rapidly engage targets out to 800 meters with match-grade 7.62mm ammunition, especially in scenarios requiring multiple follow-up shots.

That WashPo article reeks of sensationalist BS, but does bring up a legitimate point. The Marine Corps has started to pick up the M110, which at least adds semi-auto capability, but is still limited to the 7.62x51 round. Which for the kind of wars we've been fighting, has worked pretty well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Reaper-killing-30-insurgents-four-months.html

Former Army Ranger Nick ‘Irv’ Irving using his trusty SR-25 rifle he nicknamed ‘Dirty Diana’ to blast insurgents to death during the Iraq War.

From what I understand, the British have had good success with the Accuracy International rifles. .338 seems like the round for the job. I think the military should be looking at a .338 semi-auto platform for a future sniper rifle.

But what do I know, I'm just a guy on the internet.

BradMacc82 · Jun 14, 2015

The cost of outfitting with 338LM could be quite interesting, the rifles aren't exactly cheap - and neither is the ammo.

300WM would still provide good lethality at extended ranges on personnel, but you'd be giving up some anti-material capability when compared to 338LM.

IIRC, longest confirmed kill with x51 is still Gililand at 1250m. The big limitation he faced (again, IIRC) was he was at the limits of what the issued optic was capable of.

Twofer · Jun 14, 2015

We're not talking about giving one to every Marine that rolls out of MCRD San Diego or Parris Island. How many Marine snipers are there, a couple hundred?

Also, an AI rifle is a couple of grand, which is a lot to you and me, but we're talking about Uncle Sam here. How much does it cost to train and pay a young man to do that job? Quite a lot more than the cost of the rifle, even if it is chambered in five dollar bills.

Vile Shadow · Jun 14, 2015

Are we still for the most part using all calibers that are standardized with NATO?

If so, then what are other NATO members using in theirs?

shocker998md · Jun 14, 2015

friendlyhippo said:
With the exception of "failed to keep their own equipment working properly so they stole stuff from everyone else".

At least having spent 2 trips overseas with them that's been my experience.

We don't steal, your stuff got tacticly aquired. :cool:

Nonpoint · Jun 17, 2015

I sat in with some guys talking at a wounded warriors fishing tournament about this very thing and they said that while the 338 is a fine round, it has a high signature much like he 50 BMG. Unless you are on a clean pile of rocks, you throw a giant dust cloud every time you pull the trigger. They said they also had concern with the 300 win mag and would prefer to stay with 7.62x51 if they had their choice.

ericoak · Jun 17, 2015

Maybe the Marines don't need a gun that shoots as far as the Army because they don't shoot as accurate as the Army?

BradMacc82 · Jun 17, 2015

ericoak said:
Maybe the Marines don't need a gun that shoots as far as the Army because they don't shoot as accurate as the Army?

Well, that could be argued by some. But the longest confirmed kill record was held by a jarhead for over 30 years - and that can't be argued.

ericoak · Jun 17, 2015

BradMacc82 said:
Well, that could be argued by some. But the longest confirmed kill record was held by a jarhead for over 30 years - and that can't be argued.

I'm guessing you are talking about when Carlos mounted a scope in a .50 cal Browning. If you include that then I include the a-10 warthog kills so the USAF would be number 1.

bbrown · Jun 17, 2015

ericoak said:
I'm guessing you are talking about when Carlos mounted a scope in a .50 cal Browning. If you include that then I include the a-10 warthog kills so the USAF would be number 1.

Nah, Carlos' shot was a one shot, one kill. Can't say that about the Warthog, as much as I like the airplane.

jkeiler · Jun 17, 2015

I'm sure some Marine snipers have access to more powerful rifles as some have mentioned, and appears to be a matter of record. This article was about an ordinary Marine sniper section, probably a battalion asset. They might need a better standard rifle, but probably other snipers in a higher echelons (regiment or division) or those who are in Marine Recon units or other special ops outfits, have a better choice of rifles. Just my guess but that's the way things often work.

TheBert · Jun 17, 2015

ericoak said:
I'm guessing you are talking about when Carlos mounted a scope in a .50 cal Browning. If you include that then I include the a-10 warthog kills so the USAF would be number 1.

There goes the USAF inferiority complex again.

Why the Marines have failed to adopt a new sniper rifle in the past 14 years

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