1943 Tula Mosin sniper

6pack · Sep 22, 2013

My second Mosin sniper.

Got her from Aim a couple weeks ago. There's what I would consider heavy, sloppy shellac all over her. Is it okay to clean that off the metal parts (considering collector's value), or is it best to leave it?

How come this one does not have the Russian 'year' mark after the date? Does that signify anything.

So, how numbers matching is this girl? I see 'TP613' on the receiver, bolt, butt plate, floor plate and the scope mount. And I see '04459' on the receiver, scope mount and scope. Am I right to be excited about the receiver and scope having the same original numbers? Or are they not original? I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

h2u · Sep 22, 2013

That's a sweet '43 Tula! From your pics, the fonts appear to match. Check and make sure the individual serialed pieces are Tula stamped - just to be sure.

If it was me, I'd leave the shellac on the metal and let it flake off as you shoot it. I really don't think many people would hold it against you for removing it off the metal, but I never like to alter anything.

Congrats on a great rifle and I'd love to see some more pics of the mount and base. BUT- if the mount screws are staked in place, DO NOT remove the mount if at all possible. It probably means the scope is sighted in and ready to go- and collectors may get you for unscrewing a staked screw. I know I would

Alphabrew · Sep 22, 2013

What is a staked screw?

Melnic · Sep 22, 2013

I will say what I learned when I got mine from the gurus at gunboards.
The scope number on the barrel was scrubbed then stamped during rearsinal.
You can see the scrubbing marks there, the abrasive marks radius to the barrel.
They separated the original scopes then sent the scopes to have new optics at another place
Then when they put them back they force matched them
Your floor plate is also force matched. Mine was too.

I believe the square with X is the rearsinal stamp.
yours has a post war/late war stock

Mine is pretty much the same as yours. but mine is a wartime stock

Mine shoots 1 1/4" groups at 100yds from the bench with reloads. About 2" groups with surplus and 1 1/2" groups with new PPU.
I accurized mine with oiled canvas wrap and shimming.

mawkie · Sep 22, 2013

Thanks for sharing with us! Follow H2Us good advice, leave her as is and you'll be fine.

yellowsled · Sep 22, 2013

That's a winner! You just can't get better than that for a mosin sniper

6pack · Sep 22, 2013

h2u said:
Congrats on a great rifle and I'd love to see some more pics of the mount and base. BUT- if the mount screws are staked in place, DO NOT remove the mount if at all possible. It probably means the scope is sighted in and ready to go- and collectors may get you for unscrewing a staked screw. I know I would

What pics can I get you? The mount and scope comes wrapped separately from the rifle, so I can take it off the rifle.

Alphabrew said:
What is a staked screw?

I'm not certain, but isn't it when they set the screw, and then use a punch to pinch the metal at a spot around the screw, setting it in place?

yellowsled said:
That's a winner! You just can't get better than that for a mosin sniper

Love the avatar!

6pack · Sep 22, 2013

Melnic said:
I believe the square with X is the rearsinal stamp.
yours has a post war/late war stock

Mine is pretty much the same as yours. but mine is a wartime stock

I have been told the box with the X is a rearsenaling stamp too.

I've been trying to find the link to the page that has the info on the sling sleeves that gives you an idea of the stock age. Do you have that? Or how do you know the stocks age?

h2u · Sep 22, 2013

LOL! My bad. I didn't see the line out on the mag plate with my phone the first time. That's what I get for passing judgement while taking quick looks on a jobsite. Upon closer inspection with a little less distraction, it appears bolt, and mag plate are forced matched. I'd need a more clear picture of the butt plate to make a final determination on it.

The scope number on the barrel is definitely not an original stamping (my original comments didn't cover this) and was only used on Tulas when they received their updates/refurb at certain facilities. Original factory mounts came from Tula with the rifle serial number stamped into it, so the EP'ed numbers that match are a definite sign of refurb. The mount, scope, and rifle were matched together then.
It's still a great rifle, so no worries there. I'll have a better look at it (computer) tomorrow afternoon.
As for additional pictures, the back side and edges of the mount, straight on of the exposed base with mount off, and a nice, close picture of the entire scope from side you can see the numbers from. Don't forget a better picture of the butt plate serial as well.

Congrats again on your second Mosin sniper.

Melnic said:
I will say what I learned when I got mine from the gurus at gunboards.
The scope number on the barrel was scrubbed then stamped during rearsinal.
You can see the scrubbing marks there, the abrasive marks radius to the barrel.
They separated the original scopes then sent the scopes to have new optics at another place
Then when they put them back they force matched them
Your floor plate is also force matched. Mine was too.

I believe the square with X is the rearsinal stamp.
yours has a post war/late war stock

Mine is pretty much the same as yours. but mine is a wartime stock

Mine shoots 1 1/4" groups at 100yds from the bench with reloads. About 2" groups with surplus and 1 1/2" groups with new PPU.
I accurized mine with oiled canvas wrap and shimming.

monsternav · Sep 22, 2013

Actual page with sling slot/swivel info:

http://62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures06.htm

http://62x54r.net
and
www.mosinnagant.net

Machodoc · Sep 23, 2013

Alphabrew said:
What is a staked screw?

It's how you kept screws from coming out in the pre-loktite days. There were lots of variations on the theme, but with all of them you were distorting the screw head in some way ... usually punching (or chiseling or chipping) an edge of the screw head so that it was forced into a groove (made during the same strike) in the metal that the screw was going into. That made an anchor point to keep the screw from turning. In some cases, the two pieces were pre-made so that there'd be some sort of nib on the screw head, and a hole pre-drilled into the base material, so that you could just fold one into the other. But in the case of early rifles, one part is usually just smacked so that they lock together.

Anytime you hear the work "staking" used with machinery, you can first assume that a hammer is involved, and usually also some sort of punch. But sometimes with older firearms a primary screw has a crescent cut in the head, it's installed to hold whatever together, and then a secondary (often smaller) screw is inserted so that its head fits into the crescent of the primary and keeps it from backing out.

Alphabrew · Sep 23, 2013

Machodoc said:
It's how you kept screws from coming out in the pre-loktite days. There were lots of variations on the theme, but with all of them you were distorting the screw head in some way ... usually punching (or chiseling or chipping) an edge of the screw head so that it was forced into a groove (made during the same strike) in the metal that the screw was going into. That made an anchor point to keep the screw from turning. In some cases, the two pieces were pre-made so that there'd be some sort of nib on the screw head, and a hole pre-drilled into the base material, so that you could just fold one into the other. But in the case of early rifles, one part is usually just smacked so that they lock together.

Anytime you hear the work "staking" used with machinery, you can first assume that a hammer is involved, and usually also some sort of punch. But sometimes with older firearms a primary screw has a crescent cut in the head, it's installed to hold whatever together, and then a secondary (often smaller) screw is inserted so that its head fits into the crescent of the primary and keeps it from backing out.

Ah, thanks!

smoothebore · Sep 23, 2013

Check the Izzy Sniper thread, it has a good pic of staked screws on the scope mount.

6pack · Sep 23, 2013

monsternav said:
Actual page with sling slot/swivel info:

http://62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures06.htm

http://62x54r.net
and
www.mosinnagant.net

Thanks! Man, I searched that website forever yesterday looking for that!

Machodoc · Sep 23, 2013

smoothebore said:
Check the Izzy Sniper thread, it has a good pic of staked screws on the scope mount.

Not to pick nits, but I think that method is more accurately called "pinned" screws. For a couple of years of my life I lived nextdoor to an older fellow who'd spent his lifetime as a machinist in the auto industry. I wish I'd been able to record all the stuff that he knew!

psoyring · Sep 23, 2013

h2u said:
LOL!
The scope number on the barrel is definitely not an original stamping (my original comments didn't cover this) and was only used on Tulas when they received their updates/refurb at certain facilities.

This is correct, prior to the Molot Imports there was no such thing as having the scope number marked on the barrel shank of the Tula sniper rifles, now suddenly 100% of these Tulas have scope numbers. Since all of the ex-sniper Tulas are without serial numbers, my suspicion is that Molot figured that all sniper rifles should have the scope numbers stamped on the barrel even though originally it was only an Izhevsk practice.

6pack · Sep 28, 2013

h2u said:
As for additional pictures, the back side and edges of the mount, straight on of the exposed base with mount off, and a nice, close picture of the entire scope from side you can see the numbers from. Don't forget a better picture of the butt plate serial as well.

Here are a couple more:

More to follow.

h2u · Sep 29, 2013

Thanks for he additional pics. Your first one shows a great example of a staked screw on top of the base.
Your mount is an Izhevsk-which is what I thought due to the top cut from the front side. Confirmed from the rear shot.

Get a chance to shoot it yet? I can't tell from my phone if the windage pads have been sanded yet. Usually if they are, your rifle is going to have been sighted in already.

6pack · Sep 29, 2013

No shooting yet. Any free time I have had has been spent buying Doomsday rifles. I was at Duffy's today for about three hours buying/ordering a custom, milled receiver, AK47.

I thought that was a staked screw.

Is that screw supposed to be tightened down on the scope mount, or is it meant to stay just loose enough to slide the scope mount in and out? With the tightening of it left to the large, knurled knob?

Is there any issue about the Izhevsk mount versus the Tula mount?

1943 Tula Mosin sniper

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