20190314 - HB786 JUD Amendments

danb said:

Both HB 786 and SB737 are favorable with amendments as of this morning: http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=03&id=hb0786&tab=subject3&ys=2019RS

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&stab=03&id=sb0737&tab=subject3&ys=2019RS

the amendments are not posted.

Click to expand...

Abacab said:

As I predicted, that useless piece of shit Chris West was the Republican Quisling for the long gun transfer bill.

Click to expand...

fidelity said:

Gives an indication where Hogan stands (iirc, Hogan supported West over other Republican candidates that have been more vocal 2A advocates).

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

5–204.1.

(A) THIS SECTION DOES NOT APPLY TO A TRANSFER:

...

(9) THAT IS TEMPORARY, OCCURS UNDER CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH THE TRANSFEROR HAS NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT THE TRANSFEREE INTENDS TO USE THE RIFLE OR SHOTGUN IN THE COMMISSION OF A CRIME OR TO ALLOW ANOTHER PERSON TO USE THE RIFLE OR SHOTGUN, AND TAKES PLACE EXCLUSIVELY:

(I) AT AN ESTABLISHED SPORT SHOOTING RANGE OR GUN CLUB OPERATED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LOCAL LAW OF THE JURISDICTION IN WHICH THE RANGE OR CLUB IS LOCATED;

(II) DURING A LAWFULLY ORGANIZED COMPETITION INVOLVING THE USE OF A RIFLE OR SHOTGUN;

(III) DURING A PERFORMANCE OR A PRACTICE FOR A PERFORMANCE BY AN ORGANIZED GROUP THAT USES RIFLES OR SHOTGUNS AS PART OF THE PERFORMANCE;

(IV) WHILE THE TRANSFEREE IS HUNTING OR TRAPPING IF THE HUNTING OR TRAPPING IS LEGAL IN ALL PLACES AND AT ALL TIMES WHEN THE HUNTING OR TRAPPING IS CONDUCTED AND THE TRANSFEREE HOLDS ANY LICENSE OR PERMIT REQUIRED FOR THE HUNTING OR TRAPPING; OR

(V) IN THE ACTUAL PRESENCE OF THE TRANSFEROR.

Click to expand...

fidelity said:

It seems to be the stripped down LQL (without the LQL, without the 1 week wait, without the registration, without the 1 per month limit) that requires sales and transfers to occur through an FFL. There is a list of exclusions to the 4473 transfer that includes the following from the Senate bill ...



The inclusion of (9)(V) means that the owner needs to be present for circumstances (I) to (IV)? Can one lend a rifle to someone (not prohibited to possess a long gun) that is going hunting without the long gun's owner should this bill pass? What's the point of including it if the owner need not be present?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

danb said:

to pile on, regardless of the collectors letter, the wear and carry statue already carves out the exception for:



https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2010/criminal-law/title-4/subtitle-2/4-203/

Are you moving your collection from place to place for public or private exhibition? Whats an exhibition? Showboating your AR Pistol for your friends probably does not cut it.

Also, keep in mind, this only applies to handguns....

Click to expand...

lazarus said:

No, the list I-V are mutually exclusive. 9 has to be true at the same time that I, II, III, IV or V are true.

So basically you don't think they are prohibited and you don't believe they intend to use it for a crime then the transfer can occur at a shooting competition, range or while hunting or a demonstration.

OR 9 has to be true (not da criminal) AND you are present. So I can hand a rifle to my friend if he wants to look at it, but I can't walk away. Or we can be shooting in my backyard, which isn't an established range, but I can't go in an take a crap while he is shooting my rifle.

But if it occurred while we were hunting, I don't have to stay physically present with my buddy, so long as we were hunting. Or at a range, etc.

I assume all of those though mean that I couldn't loan my neighbor a rifle to take to the range and return to me when he comes back or take a shotgun hunting and return it when he is back.

So basically extremely limited loaning under very tight circumstances.

Hopefully it goes down in flames or doesn't even come up for a vote, but I am not hopeful at this point.

Also where did you find the language? Was that out of SB737 or HB786? Because as far as I can find and tell, only HB786 has the amended language posted (which appears to be the same as what you posted), SB737 advanced out of committee amended today, but the language isn't up on MGA's website yet (probably sometime tomorrow).

Click to expand...

BeoBill said:

The sad thing is that the hoodlums in Baltimore will care not a whit about ANY of the sections.

ETA: This PROVES that the MGA is in the business of creating new criminals outside of their fantasy world, rather than punishing the current ones. But we knew that before.

Click to expand...

redeye said:

Actually, that’s EXACTLY what it means, as it is written.

Laws are words. Words mean things. Not what you think they might mean, but rather what the words actually say. Don’t try to be smarter than the words the law is composed of. It’s not your responsibility to try and imagine what you think the people who wrote that law must’ve meant. It’s your responsibility to comply with it as it is written

I’m a state designated collector. If I bring an AR pistol to show you, at your house, that’s an exhibition, at a private venue. Exactly as the law states.


Now... if everyone on this board would simply offer other members a full-time, standing, unannounced invite to all other members who are state designated collectors to drop by any time, in order to exhibit a firearm at their private residence.... then you’d always have a place to be heading to if anyone in authority ever made an issue of it. If you were stopped at 3am and pressed to explain why you were transporting a regulated firearm, all you’d have to say is “I’m on the way to Redeye’s house. He’s an insomniac. I figured he would wanna see this.”

And I’ll say “Yep, I told him or any other MDS folks to drop by any time. Just PM me if they got lost on the way here..”

And the law is hereby complied with.

Click to expand...

fidelity said:

Hi Lazarus,

Thanks for your thoughts. I was puzzled on the necessity to add (V). I guess it's so a friend doesn't deliver to another friend, maybe.

As per where I found it, I followed links from here on my phone ...

https://www.msrpa.org/2019-maryland-general-assembly-bill-tracker/

but couldn't tell you which ones. I'm trying to attach the PDF that I think that I downloaded today if this helps (but have had mixed luck attaching PDFs in the past and have a few similar files in the d/l folder). There are strikeouts of things that we know to be gone, but I don't know how current the document is.

Eta: so one can't lend temporarily if someone needs a long gun at home for self-defense?

View attachment 257475

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

lazarus said:

Ah, okay that’s the text for Hb786. Still nothing for how it was amended for SB737.

There is (I am pretty sure) a provision for self defense loans. But they’d have to be short in duration, etc.

The “in the presence” exception is so I can, for example, let you hold and look at my rifle. Because MGA is legislating that just touching someone else’s gun is considered a loan now.

Things like that. Or for example backyard shooting. That’s not a designated range...

Click to expand...

danb said:

IIRC the "favorable with amendments" document for SB737 says something about conforming to the house version. Going from memory here.

Click to expand...

redeye said:

Actually, that’s EXACTLY what it means, as it is written.

Laws are words. Words mean things. Not what you think they might mean, but rather what the words actually say. Don’t try to be smarter than the words the law is composed of. It’s not your responsibility to try and imagine what you think the people who wrote that law must’ve meant. It’s your responsibility to comply with it as it is written

I’m a state designated collector. If I bring an AR pistol to show you, at your house, that’s an exhibition, at a private venue. Exactly as the law states.


Now... if everyone on this board would simply offer other members a full-time, standing, unannounced invite to all other members who are state designated collectors to drop by any time, in order to exhibit a firearm at their private residence.... then you’d always have a place to be heading to if anyone in authority ever made an issue of it. If you were stopped at 3am and pressed to explain why you were transporting a regulated firearm, all you’d have to say is “I’m on the way to Redeye’s house. He’s an insomniac. I figured he would wanna see this.”

And I’ll say “Yep, I told him or any other MDS folks to drop by any time. Just PM me if they got lost on the way here..”

And the law is hereby complied with.

Click to expand...