Vile Shadow
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- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
Never use .308 in a rifle chambered for 7.62x51mm
- Thread starter mark1070
- Start date
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I cast a 7.62 x 39 bullet from the lee mold #DCLT-312-160-2R which by specs casts a .312 diameter bullet (7.62)
Of course I size them down to .308 for use in my 30-06 target reloads and this process produces a very nice round.
I think the issue with what you are trying to understand is that the .308 is too small for a 7.62 bore which is as stated a .312 All I am doing is taking the larger bullet and making it smaller to serve the proper purpose. That version works fine.
Shooting a .308 in a 7.62 is like trying to shoot a .22 through a .38 Special. Maybe not quite that big of difference for examplificational purposes...
"Shooting a .308 in a 7.62 is like trying to shoot a .22 through a .38 Special. Maybe not quite that big of difference for examplificational purposes... "
I know what you are trying to say but in the case of a .308 vs. .312 bore, it depends on the load.
If I load a .308 Hornady 150gn bullet in a 7.62x54 case (you need a .308 expander) with powder for 2800 - 3000 FPS load, the bullet will bump up and engage the rifling. Accuracy is not bad in a good Mosin barrel.
If you try this using reduced loads, the bullet won't bump up and the accuracy will be poor.
"Of course I size them down to .308 for use in my 30-06 target reloads and this process produces a very nice round."
Most folks that shoot lead cast in full size cartridges have found that sizing the bullet .002 over bore diameter gives the best accuracy, consistency and the least leading. Try it in your '06, you may like it.
Regards,
John
I know what you are trying to say but in the case of a .308 vs. .312 bore, it depends on the load.
If I load a .308 Hornady 150gn bullet in a 7.62x54 case (you need a .308 expander) with powder for 2800 - 3000 FPS load, the bullet will bump up and engage the rifling. Accuracy is not bad in a good Mosin barrel.
If you try this using reduced loads, the bullet won't bump up and the accuracy will be poor.
"Of course I size them down to .308 for use in my 30-06 target reloads and this process produces a very nice round."
Most folks that shoot lead cast in full size cartridges have found that sizing the bullet .002 over bore diameter gives the best accuracy, consistency and the least leading. Try it in your '06, you may like it.
Regards,
John
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
7.62x39 and 7.62x51 are not the same bore size.
7.62x39 is a .311 bore size, using a .312 bullet.
7.62x51 is a .308 bore size, shooting a .309 bullet.
BTW 7.62mm = 0.300 inches.
The Soviets did this in a number of instances, where the similar round of theirs uses a slightly larger bullet. So the can use captured stuff, but not vice versa. 12.7mm vs 50 BMG is one where except for bore/bullet size, the rounds are identical. You can fire .50 BMG in a 12.7mm machine gun, but if you try the opposite, you blow up the machine gun.
7.62x39 is a .311 bore size, using a .312 bullet.
7.62x51 is a .308 bore size, shooting a .309 bullet.
BTW 7.62mm = 0.300 inches.
The Soviets did this in a number of instances, where the similar round of theirs uses a slightly larger bullet. So the can use captured stuff, but not vice versa. 12.7mm vs 50 BMG is one where except for bore/bullet size, the rounds are identical. You can fire .50 BMG in a 12.7mm machine gun, but if you try the opposite, you blow up the machine gun.
Vile Shadow
...
- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
Can you typically shoot either load in an M1A?
Yes. From what I understand, when reloading the max load will change from .308 to 7.62x51. Hornady has a max load of 44gr. of varget for the .308 using 165-168 gr. bullet and a max load of 42.7 for the 7.62 using the 168gr. bullet. I think it is due to the brass is thicker on the 7.62.
I will be reloading very soon for .308, shooting out of a M1A. So if anyone has any advice, Im all ears.
RE Mosin Nagant: Unless what I've learned is incorrect, Don't confuse a 308 bullet with a 308 Winchester cartridge.
Many loading books list a .308 bullet for a 7.62x54r reload. The original Russian stuff is .310. Most Mosin circles will tell you to slug the bore and see if you can use .311 (which is what I have been using as mine slugged to .312). BTW I tried a couple loads of .308 bullets in my Mosin and accuracy was noticeably worse compared to .311.
Many loading books list a .308 bullet for a 7.62x54r reload. The original Russian stuff is .310. Most Mosin circles will tell you to slug the bore and see if you can use .311 (which is what I have been using as mine slugged to .312). BTW I tried a couple loads of .308 bullets in my Mosin and accuracy was noticeably worse compared to .311.
ravens52
Active Member
I recently purchased a British Lee Enfield no 3 in .308. I had no idea the variances between the .308 and 7.62 x 51. Very informative thread. Thanks for all the information and knowledge. This is the exact reason I look through this sight each day.
Vile Shadow
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- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
I searched it down and bumped it, after reading a little bit about M1A's and finding that article. I was wondering if the difference between .308 and 7.62x51 is greater or lesser than that between .233 and 5.56x45.
whitelightning777
Active Member
- May 20, 2013
- 181
The 30 Soviet and 54r use the same size as the British 303. While a 308 is safe to shoot from an AK, it's not as accurate.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
7.62 might not mean .308
7.62mm = 0.300 inches
Eastern block 7.62 has been traditionally more like .311
Not unsafe to shoot .308 bullets in a 7.62x39 or x54R. But the other way around is NOT a good idea.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Hodgdon does not list the two cartridges separately.
M1A is easy. Basic load is 168 Sierra Match King over 41.5 grains of H4895 or IMR 4895 and a CCI BR-2 primer. Most people say if your gun does not shoot this accurately, something is wrong with the gun.
BTW MAX of 4 firings of cases in M1A. Or you will have a case separation.
Thanks John for the info. I'm like CoreLokt, I'm all ears too for any information that might help improve on the use of the 7.62X39
I use this cast bullet version for lighter loads in the .06 for close range target shooting meaning 50 to 75 yards of pure bang and glamour simply to be able to shoot the gun and put holes in paper and not go in debt doing it as we all know the large rifle rounds are about $2.25 each these days. I figure if I can cast a bullet, gas check it, and sling it a few yards at a soda can then I'm having the intended fun. Target shooting has gotten even too costly for my arsenal of muzzleloaders.
However, I try to do things by the book, but, I wonder if I can use that 7.62 X 39 cast bullet without even resizing it now. Heck when I run them through the lube/sizing die it doesn't see like it shaves enough to even worry about, but the die comes in to play for the GC application process.
I'm open to suggestions myself for sure.
"Heck when I run them through the lube/sizing die it doesn't see like it shaves enough to even worry about, but the die comes in to play for the GC application process."
Go ahead and try it. The critical part of loading a larger bullet is whether it will fit the chamber or not. I have a nice 1894 30-30 that has a bore of .310. However, I can't chamber a .310 bullet as the neck won't accept the larger size. It still shoots 2 MOA with lead reloads so I can't complain.
I would load up a dummy cartridge and try it.
John
Go ahead and try it. The critical part of loading a larger bullet is whether it will fit the chamber or not. I have a nice 1894 30-30 that has a bore of .310. However, I can't chamber a .310 bullet as the neck won't accept the larger size. It still shoots 2 MOA with lead reloads so I can't complain.
I would load up a dummy cartridge and try it.
John
jpk1md
Ultimate Member
- Jan 13, 2007
- 11,313
The two rounds are very close but are not exactly the same.
And some guns are perfectly fine to feed 308 OR 7.62x51 in
Depends on the chambering AND the exact headspacing
For example, iirc an M1A chambered for 7.62x51 with a headspacing of ~1.632 or 3 will feed any of the above just fine.
Vile Shadow
...
- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
Can you shoot .308 in a .30-06?
Just curious.
Just curious.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
You may be able to do it once.
Very likely the round will move forward and not get a hard enough primer strike.
If it does fire, you run the risk of the bullet tilting and not properly entering the barrel. And blowing up the gun.
Very likely the round will move forward and not get a hard enough primer strike.
If it does fire, you run the risk of the bullet tilting and not properly entering the barrel. And blowing up the gun.
Vile Shadow
...
- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
Really? Hmm, that's ugly.
I kinda figured there wouldn't be much difference in the two but length, since .308 = 7.62x51 and .30-06 = 7.62x63, and it would be like .22 shorts in a .22 LR.
I kinda figured there wouldn't be much difference in the two but length, since .308 = 7.62x51 and .30-06 = 7.62x63, and it would be like .22 shorts in a .22 LR.
Curious
Could you please tell me the meaning and origin of this word? I've got some pretty old dictionaries (hard copy) and can't find the word anywhere. Thanks.
Could you please tell me the meaning and origin of this word? I've got some pretty old dictionaries (hard copy) and can't find the word anywhere. Thanks.
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