“Abolish the Second Amendment”

lemmdus · Jul 25, 2018

"Our police and armed forces can be well-regulated...." - that didn't go to well for Nazi Germany, Russia, or China.

"Tomorrow I will work to elect sensible local, state, national legislators, and a new president to abolish the 2nd Amendment" - good luck with that on Skippy, you will need 3/4th of the States to go along with you and that ain't gonna happen. There will be a civil war and blood, blood, and more blood.

ras_oscar · Jul 26, 2018

The US government was set up as a system of checks and balances. The Senate confirmation balances the power of the President to nominate supreme court members. The power of the senate is controlled by congress, where money is appropriated. The power of the state legislatures is regulated by the supreme court and federal law in areas of control enumerated in the constitution. Ultimately the power of elected and employed government officials is balanced by the second amendment. Whether individual people choose to purchase firearms or not, that right is a balance, Removing that right would upset the balance and the consequences of such actions as yet undetermined.

If you think I'm being silly, consider:

Who in 1912 would have thought that a World War would have resulted from the assassination of one man?

JohnnyE · Jul 26, 2018

lemmdus said:
"Our police and armed forces can be well-regulated...." - that didn't go to well for Nazi Germany, Russia, or China.

"Tomorrow I will work to elect sensible local, state, national legislators, and a new president to abolish the 2nd Amendment" - good luck with that on Skippy, you will need 3/4th of the States to go along with you and that ain't gonna happen. There will be a civil war and blood, blood, and more blood.

And they are well-regulated by well-written words. But should they no longer respect well-written words, then they will have to be brought back into line by other means. They cannot be the only ones with arms.

Reptile · Aug 1, 2018

JohnnyE said:
And they are well-regulated by well-written words. But should they no longer respect well-written words, then they will have to be brought back into line by other means. They cannot be the only ones with arms.

A bumper sticker I saw today demonstrates the (intentional?) misreading of the Second Amendment. It said, "the best part of the Second Amendment is 'well regulated'." It means that private citizens should have firearms and know how to use them, not that the private keeping and bearing of arms should be regulated by the government.

Cold Steel · Aug 7, 2018

Many journalists argue that the Second Amendment should go because when it was written, high capacity magazines and automatic weapons weren't invented. Fair enough. And opponents of free speech also perhaps have a point in saying the First Amendment can be eliminated because in the 1700s there was no television, radio, cable and high speed Internet and distribution systems. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And the logic that can strike down one right can strike down another.

Cold Steel · Aug 7, 2018

Reptile said:
A bumper sticker I saw today demonstrates the (intentional?) misreading of the Second Amendment. It said, "the best part of the Second Amendment is 'well regulated'." It means that private citizens should have firearms and know how to use them, not that the private keeping and bearing of arms should be regulated by the government.

That's the beauty of having a living Constitution! It can change it's meaning as circumstances change. That's the whole message of Orwell's Animal Farm: once one begins changing meanings, it can mean anything anyone wishes. But they don't teach Orwell in schools anymore.

Wonder why not?

.

Ronan · Aug 7, 2018

JohnnyE said:
And they are well-regulated by well-written words. But should they no longer respect well-written words, then they will have to be brought back into line by other means. They cannot be the only ones with arms.

Good luck with that one... seeing how well militarized the police is in the US...

HoCoShooter · Aug 7, 2018

Here's an excellent mini-book (6 bucks!) that's fantastic reading and *almost* worth giving away free to anti's - you can read the whole thing in an hour or two. It's great for people like the author of this Gazette letter who have twisted those 27 words to meet whatever their personal beliefs are.

The bulk of the book is cited quotes from the founding fathers and other early Americans regarding the 2A - It is literally impossible to read it and come away believing that the intent was anything other than what most forum members here believe it to be.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0925279773

newmuzzleloader · Aug 7, 2018

Cold Steel said:
That's the beauty of having a living Constitution! It can change it's meaning as circumstances change. That's the whole message of Orwell's Animal Farm: once one begins changing meanings, it can mean anything anyone wishes. But they don't teach Orwell in schools anymore.

Wonder why not?

.

Orwell was required reading in High School English class when I was there ( in body if not in mind) in the late 70's. Now they don't even call it English class anymore. Integrated Language Arts. :sad20:

JohnnyE · Aug 7, 2018

Ronan said:
Good luck with that one... seeing how well militarized the police is in the US...

That keeps coming up, that armed citizens have no chance in this day and age against the modern military. I would agree with that, but things aren't necessarily always so binary.

Back in the mid-1980's, Philippine president Ferdinand Marcos had just won a rigged election. Citizens began demonstrating in the streets. Marcos called out the military in an effort to hold on to his presidency. Armed troops surrounded the presidential palace. Citizens gathered around by the thousand right up to the troops.

The citizens were unarmed, and there wasn't meaningful violence. Demonstrators took to inserting flowers into the muzzles of the rifles that the troops were holding at port arms. Eventually, the Marcos regime collapsed. The reason in large part is that the officers and troops did not have the stomach to fire on their fellow citizens.

There is no telling how the next "revolution" will play out. It may be as benign as the Philippines, or total war, or some shade in between.

All that being said, an armed citizenry provides for more options than an unarmed citizenry. That's the important point. What one does with ones options is another thing. All I know is that it is good to have options.

DC-W · Aug 7, 2018

A year ago, The Trace, a site that does push for a lot more gun control, found that Americans own more than 70 TIMES than the collective amount of arms between all US Military and Police Departments across the country. That was last year when the Small Arms Survey still had the stock of privately held guns at around 270 million. They released a new report this year saying we're over 400 million or so privately held arms. You do the math (Seriously. I'm terrible).

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...s-70-times-guns-u-s-police-military-combined/

American civilians own about half of all the firearms in the world. ROOKIE NUMBERS, GUYS.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...shows-us-with-46-of-privately-owned-firearms/

teratos · Aug 7, 2018

Ronan said:
Good luck with that one... seeing how well militarized the police is in the US...

You are kidding, right? You clearly don't understand the weaponry that is in the hands of civilians.

DaemonAssassin · Aug 8, 2018

Ronan said:
Good luck with that one... seeing how well militarized the police is in the US...

Well let's go back in time shall we? Vietnam, a guerilla "army" held off the US military. In Afghanistan and Iraq and other nations to this day, insurgent forces are fighting -and in a lot of cases- and winning against the US military. Let's go back even further to the American Revolution. An armed citizenry defeated the British military with small unit hit and run tactics.

What do all of those examples have in common? The opposing force the the US military and British military was made up of civilians that were familiar with the land and also had basic shooting skills. Today, Americans that would stand up to defend the nation in a Civil War are the ones that go hunting (think sniper rifles), prior military that swore an oath that has no expiration date (think small unit tactics), local law enforcement (think non-enforcement of illegal orders to confiscate firearms), and the list goes on. With the US citizenry having AR-15's, AR-10's, bolt actions, shotguns, sidearms, and everything else under the sun, what makes you think the citizens of this nation would be wiped out by government forces?

I'll make this real easy. You know how you demoralize a unit in combat? You kill the CO. Make it a kill that makes them wonder if they are going to be next. After enough have been killed, the unit integrity disintegrates. What do you think we did in WW I and WW II? It is a rule that is as ironclad as breathing. Kill enough of the commanders, nobody will want to be one, at that point you have achieved neutralization. Another way to demoralize a unit is through other tactical measures like ambushes, IED's, etc... If you leave one alive, they will inform their comrades and the psychological damage created a massive drop in morale. You will start to see desertion rates go up as the combatants decide that they don't want to die for no reason fighting a war they can't ever win.

It is all psychological. If you control the psychological aspect of warfare, you will prevail.

OLM-Medic · Aug 8, 2018

teratos said:
You are kidding, right? You clearly don't understand the weaponry that is in the hands of civilians.

Especially in this tactical era. Pretty much everyone has an AR, gear, armor, a good majority have NVG, cans, long range rigs.

The gear is irrelevant though. That many determined people armed with only mosin nagants and hit and run tactics would cripple an occupying force.

On the flip side, the occupying force isn't going to use advanced weaponry due to the collateral damage.

teratos · Aug 8, 2018

OLM-Medic said:
Especially in this tactical era. Pretty much everyone has an AR, gear, armor, a good majority have NVG, cans, long range rigs.

The gear is irrelevant though. That many determined people armed with only mosin nagants and hit and run tactics would cripple an occupying force.

On the flip side, the occupying force isn't going to use advanced weaponry due to the collateral damage.

I have AR's for everyone in the family and some of the neighbors.

OLM-Medic · Aug 8, 2018

teratos said:
I have AR's for everyone in the family and some of the neighbors.

I've actually been downsizing my collection in favor of upgrading other gear. I figured you can only use so many guns at once, but hand outs aren't a bad idea either.

MigraineMan · Aug 8, 2018

teratos said:
I have AR's for everyone in the family and some of the neighbors.

I have a broom handle I can probably grind on the curbing to make a rudimentary sharp-stick to keep the neighbors at bay should SHTF.

I don't have *any* guns, and am completely unprepared for anything out of the ordinary. You might try Teratos' place. I hear he's got "stuff."

JohnnyE · Aug 8, 2018

MigraineMan said:
I have a broom handle I can probably grind on the curbing to make a rudimentary sharp-stick to keep the neighbors at bay should SHTF.

I don't have *any* guns, and am completely unprepared for anything out of the ordinary. You might try Teratos' place. I hear he's got "stuff."

Why would you ruin something so fine???

ras_oscar · Aug 8, 2018

JohnnyE said:
Why would you ruin something so fine???

Our minds think alike :lol:

Mark75H · Aug 9, 2018

DaemonAssassin said:
Well let's go back in time shall we? Vietnam, a guerilla "army" held off the US military. In Afghanistan and Iraq and other nations to this day, insurgent forces are fighting -and in a lot of cases- and winning against the US military. Let's go back even further to the American Revolution. An armed citizenry defeated the British military with small unit hit and run tactics. ... It is all psychological. If you control the psychological aspect of warfare, you will prevail.

Another example, the term "guerrilla" itself - goes back to the Peninsular War of 1807-14 where Spanish guerrilla worried Napoleon's highly trained and most technologically equipped army of its day.

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