"Gotchas" of building an AR pistol?

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  • hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    People might be interested in these two articles on the use of AR pistols. I have one and like it a lot. It's not an SBR, but, as noted above, it also comes with less hassle. So you can get/build one a bit cheaper than an SBR, never deal with any paperwork, but at the cost of the 4th point of contact and the accuracy that goes with it.

    https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com/2015/07/05/ar-pistol-legitimate-combat-firearm-or-novelty/

    https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com/2015/07/08/the-ar-pistol-as-a-truck-gun/
     

    friendlyhippo

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 7, 2015
    592
    Glen Burnout
    There are more build options available in a pistol than an SBR,

    By what measure do you arrive at this conclusion? Every build option available for a pistol is also available for a rifle....with the addition of your choice of any stock available as well. Which means the SBR has more configuration choices, not the other way round.

    A stock which imo, isn't even necessary for a close qtr combat /range toy, weapon.

    Okay, let's head to the 25-yard line. i'll use my 5.56 SBR, you can use your 5.56 pistol (remember, it's ILLEGAL to shoulder a pistol per current ATF ruling) and we'll see who can get more A-zone hits on an IPSC silhouette in 10 seconds.

    Quick target acquisition and follow up shots with a cheek weld on a buffer tube pad, works amazingly well with the right muzzle device. Flaming pig, Lantac Dragon etc, all make these short barrel AR's very manageable shooters.

    Shoulder it with a stock and it becomes even better. There isn't a small arm out there that fires better when held out away from the body than it does when properly shouldered.

    Pay for a trust, pay for the tax stamp, pay for an unnecessary stock, pay for an engraving, paperwork to move your SBR out of state.

    1. Trusts aren't mandatory. Not a required expense.

    2. Tax stamp is what? 200 bucks? Less than the cost of most barrels out there.

    3. That "unnecessary" stock can cost a lot less than a lot of the pistol buffer tubes out there. All the boutique builders with their 'blades' and 'arm braces' and other unnecessary buffer tube accessories often end up paying a lot more than a simple 6-position mil-spec tube with m4 waffle stock (which can be had for about 40-50 bucks, with all accessories).

    4. There are board members willing to do the engraving for less than you probably spent on your last fast-food lunch.

    5. I just filled out a 5320.20. It took me 4 minutes; I timed it. What a terrible hassle. And it's only good for a full calendar year. Oh, the humanity. You can't possibly be *THAT* lazy; I think you're just looking for excuses.

    I feel like the SBR suck, far outweighs any AR pistol suck.

    Grow some testes and get an SBR, then you'll realize why you're wrong. :)
     

    Hawkeye

    The Leatherstocking
    Jan 29, 2009
    3,971
    Second^^^$120 or so will buy you a SLR adjustable bass black. Don't mess with the clamp-on. Get the other model and get it pinned.

    Is the SLR the "one to get" for adjustable gas?

    People might be interested in these two articles on the use of AR pistols. I have one and like it a lot. It's not an SBR, but, as noted above, it also comes with less hassle. So you can get/build one a bit cheaper than an SBR, never deal with any paperwork, but at the cost of the 4th point of contact and the accuracy that goes with it.

    https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com/2015/07/05/ar-pistol-legitimate-combat-firearm-or-novelty/

    https://civiliangunfighter.wordpress.com/2015/07/08/the-ar-pistol-as-a-truck-gun/

    Dear Jesus the background on that site makes it nearly impossible to read.

    By what measure do you arrive at this conclusion? Every build option available for a pistol is also available for a rifle....

    Except barrel length. If I want to do, say, a 5.5 inch barrel 9mm pistol I can't SBR that in MD.

    These will in all honesty mostly be toys. I *may* eventually SBR one / both of them and or suppress them, but again, that's a maybe.

    I appreciate all of the input from everyone on this.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Hey, you ask about pistols on the rifle board, you're gonna get guys telling you to get a rifle. :)

    The barrel length thing is a real point, but it only really comes into play with .300AAC and pistol calibers. IMHO, you would be better off just buying an M85NP if you really think you're going to want a rifle-caliber pistol in 5.56x45...
     

    AJRB

    Ultimate Member
    May 8, 2013
    1,584
    By what measure do you arrive at this conclusion? Every build option available for a pistol is also available for a rifle....with the addition of your choice of any stock available as well. Which means the SBR has more configuration choices, not the other way round.


    Okay, let's head to the 25-yard line. i'll use my 5.56 SBR, you can use your 5.56 pistol (remember, it's ILLEGAL to shoulder a pistol per current ATF ruling) and we'll see who can get more A-zone hits on an IPSC silhouette in 10 seconds.


    Shoulder it with a stock and it becomes even better. There isn't a small arm out there that fires better when held out away from the body than it does when properly shouldered.


    1. Trusts aren't mandatory. Not a required expense.

    2. Tax stamp is what? 200 bucks? Less than the cost of most barrels out there.

    3. That "unnecessary" stock can cost a lot less than a lot of the pistol buffer tubes out there. All the boutique builders with their 'blades' and 'arm braces' and other unnecessary buffer tube accessories often end up paying a lot more than a simple 6-position mil-spec tube with m4 waffle stock (which can be had for about 40-50 bucks, with all accessories).

    4. There are board members willing to do the engraving for less than you probably spent on your last fast-food lunch.

    5. I just filled out a 5320.20. It took me 4 minutes; I timed it. What a terrible hassle. And it's only good for a full calendar year. Oh, the humanity. You can't possibly be *THAT* lazy; I think you're just looking for excuses.



    Grow some testes and get an SBR, then you'll realize why you're wrong. :)

    I'm referring to barrel length limitations due to 29 OAL.

    I would take that challenge any day of the week and win :D

    It's a close quarter combat weapon, not a precision bulls eye rifle. Just look at all the new firearms in pistol configs that are coming out, the new CZ scorpion for example etc...

    1) a trust is mandatory if you don't want to wait half a year.
    2) That 200 dollar stamp also pays to limit you on travel out of state with it. I'd rather buy another barrel.
    3) I agree the sig brace is a waste of money, foam padding is all that is needed. The stock is also an unnecessary cost (in my opinion)
    4) spending zero on an engraving is still less than what I paid for lunch :sad20:
    5) I'm not a lazy person at all, I just don't want to have to ask the govt for permission by filling out a form, to go where I want to go. None of their business (in my opinion) I am also not looking for excuses, as it appears you are giving me excuses why you and a lot of others pay unnecessary, unconstitutional fees to the govt.

    How about you apologize for your comment about growing some testes, and act like an adult on this forum. Your opinion doesn't make me wrong about anything.

    I don't mind if my pistol opinions fire up all you guys that blow your money on SBR's, it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. You SBR guys wont bully me out of my opinion (awkward :o)
     

    friendlyhippo

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    May 7, 2015
    592
    Glen Burnout
    I'm referring to barrel length limitations due to 29 OAL.

    Creativity can solve that without needing a longer barrel. If you're unable to be creative enough to find a solution, that's not anyone else's fault. ;)


    I would take that challenge any day of the week and win :D

    Cool, when I get back from Texas in the spring, we'll head to DSC and you can prove me wrong.

    It's a close quarter combat weapon, not a precision bulls eye rifle. Just look at all the new firearms in pistol configs that are coming out, the new CZ scorpion for example etc...

    Just because lots of new firearms are coming out in pistol configuration, doesn't mean it's ideal or remotely close to "better" than something with the same barrel length which can be shoulder-fired.

    1) a trust is mandatory if you don't want to wait half a year.
    2) That 200 dollar stamp also pays to limit you on travel out of state with it. I'd rather buy another barrel.
    3) I agree the sig brace is a waste of money, foam padding is all that is needed. The stock is also an unnecessary cost (in my opinion)
    4) spending zero on an engraving is still less than what I paid for lunch :sad20:
    5) I'm not a lazy person at all, I just don't want to have to ask the govt for permission by filling out a form, to go where I want to go. None of their business (in my opinion) I am also not looking for excuses, as it appears you are giving me excuses why you and a lot of others pay unnecessary, unconstitutional fees to the govt.

    1. E-forms are taking just as long as paper at this point; some individuals are even reporting faster times than those with trusts for both forms 1 and 4, and that includes people in maryland who have to deal with the MSP hoops. (took care of it before you chose to try and use it as another excuse)

    2. Seven states don't allow SBRs. Do you do a lot of shooting in New Jersey, New York, Hawaii, Washington State, Alabama, or Rhode Island? :lol2:

    3. Foam padding for what? You can't shoulder it legally. Why would you need foam padding? Even then, you're still likely to spend the same as (if not more than) a full stocked setup.

    4. You missed the point of that entirely. If something that obvious is sailing over your head....well, you still think AR pistols are the best option so clearly logic isn't your forte. ;)

    5. Okay, well, you have fun in your fallout shelter with your c-rats, the rest of us are going to enjoy life. :lol2:

    How about you apologize for your comment about growing some testes, and act like an adult on this forum.

    Testes is a medical term (a point I'm sure Teratos will second), and is in fact the terminology those who are acting like adults use. If I weren't acting like an adult, I'd call you a doo-doo-head who needs to man the hell up, but I didn't. I was mature and used medical terminology. If that offends you, I recommend never visiting a doctor. :D Or, lighten up and realize it's humor, not personal insults. Given your penchant for ranting about how everything's an unconstitutional conspiracy (RAWR!!) I'm going to guess you'll probably be offended again. Here's a tip: things are only offensive if you LET them become offensive. Calm down, take a knee, change your socks, and drink some water. It's going to be okay, I promise.

    Your opinion doesn't make me wrong about anything.

    14789132.jpg


    (see what I did there? smile. it's a short week.)

    AR pistol discussion belongs in the pistols forum. :D
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    Jesus, guys, there are pros and cons to both the pistol and the SBR.

    Pro of the SBR is that it has a stock and all of the associated advantages that come with that.

    Pros for the pistol are:
    1. A bit cheaper (no trust, stamp, stock, engraving, photos, fingerprints, etc).
    2. Can be made shorter here in MD.
    3. Can travel without paperwork.
    4. Can carry on a CC permit in most states.

    Pick what suits you best.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    1. I like AR pistols for what they are, and don't feel they are without use. That said there is no question about SBR having faster target aquistion at 25yds. Not even close. Now if you did wish to have an interesting comparison/ conversation, it would involve practical accuraccy at various distances between 15-50yds compared to a conventional belt pistol.

    2. I actually might visit Alabama.

    3. Trusts have multiple advantages, even if the time per se is non-issue.

    4. I've been procrastinating on Form 20's . Don't want to burn thru time before putting into use them, but when I would want one, probably will be last minute.

    5. I did what I needed to do , when I needed to , to be Grandfathered with a cpl *intersting* items. I also would have intrest in SBR versions of things that fall outside of the Firearms Supression Act. But for someone starting now, with the usual configurations under discussion, the 29in oal kind of limiting in usefulness.
     

    AJRB

    Ultimate Member
    May 8, 2013
    1,584
    Jesus, guys, there are pros and cons to both the pistol and the SBR.

    Pro of the SBR is that it has a stock and all of the associated advantages that come with that.

    Pros for the pistol are:
    1. A bit cheaper (no trust, stamp, stock, engraving, photos, fingerprints, etc).
    2. Can be made shorter here in MD.
    3. Can travel without paperwork.
    4. Can carry on a CC permit in most states.

    Pick what suits you best.

    Yeah I'm done with the pissing contest.

    I have found the first person to make it onto my ignore list.
     

    ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    AR-15 pistols are dumb. If you aren't going to get a real stock on it then you are better off with a handgun.

    Correction, all the rifle caliber "pistols" are dumb.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    AR-15 pistols are dumb. If you aren't going to get a real stock on it then you are better off with a handgun.

    Correction, all the rifle caliber "pistols" are dumb.

    Thanks for the well-thought-out and thought-provoking response!

    I could not disagree more.
     

    ericoak

    don't drop Aboma on me
    Feb 20, 2010
    6,806
    Howard County
    Thanks for the well-thought-out and thought-provoking response!

    I could not disagree more.

    Everybody is entitled to their opinion and it's your money.

    But there is a reason an AR pistol isn't issued by any armed organization. Every person who uses a weapon professionally either uses a standard handgun or a shouldered rifle/shotgun.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Here's my new theory: the "I love AR-15 pistols" enthusiasts have never owned an AR-15 SBR before.

    Thanks for the well-thought-out and thought-provoking response!

    I could not disagree more.
    I ran an AR-15 SBR briefly as a pistol - and this was back when shouldering your pistol wasn't a potential ticket to Club Fed - and I could not get that stamp fast enough. A 5-6lb handgun simply blows as a handgun. It doesn't even matter what caliber it's in, or who made it, or whatever. AR pistols introduce a whole new layer of sucking from their gigantic buffer tube hanging out the ass and a DI gas system that 1) is difficult and/or expensive to tune at short lengths and 2) dumps carbon back into the action... so if you're running overgassed, as many 7.5"-8.5" pistols are, you're generally polluting your action heavily.

    If you must have a rifle caliber pistol range toy, get a PLR-16, M85NP, or M92. You will spend way less money and get a gun that is way more usable.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    Here's my new theory: the "I love AR-15 pistols" enthusiasts have never owned an AR-15 SBR before.


    I ran an AR-15 SBR briefly as a pistol - and this was back when shouldering your pistol wasn't a potential ticket to Club Fed - and I could not get that stamp fast enough. A 5-6lb handgun simply blows as a handgun. It doesn't even matter what caliber it's in, or who made it, or whatever. AR pistols introduce a whole new layer of sucking from their gigantic buffer tube hanging out the ass and a DI gas system that 1) is difficult and/or expensive to tune at short lengths and 2) dumps carbon back into the action... so if you're running overgassed, as many 7.5"-8.5" pistols are, you're generally polluting your action heavily.

    If you must have a rifle caliber pistol range toy, get a PLR-16, M85NP, or M92. You will spend way less money and get a gun that is way more usable.

    Change "all" to "most" and you may be right. "All" is incorrect because I have an SBR AND an AR pistol, and I really like the AR pistol for all of the reasons I've already outlined in this thread. Mine has a reasonable length barrel so I don't have issues of overgassing, and the Phase 5 tube is shorter than some others. Cheek weld provides reasonable accuracy at shorter distances, as it gives you that 3rd pt of contact that makes it way easier to shoot well than a regular handgun. I can also legally carry it loaded in many states I visit as a "just in case" gun in addition to my "regular" concealed carry pistol.
     

    hogarth

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2009
    2,504
    Everybody is entitled to their opinion and it's your money.

    But there is a reason an AR pistol isn't issued by any armed organization. Every person who uses a weapon professionally either uses a standard handgun or a shouldered rifle/shotgun.

    That's a silly argument. Those who use them professionally don't have the legal hoops to jump through in order to own them, carry them, travel with them, and they don't pay for them.

    Edit to add: I don't think anyone is saying an AR pistol is as good as an SBR. If the NFA was rescinded, everyone would convert their AR pistols to SBRs. However, the NFA isn't going anywhere, so we have to look through that lens. Keeping the laws in mind, the AR pistol provides similar--though not as effective--performance as an SBR without the hoops and $ invested.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    OK , I implied it before, but I have an AR-15 Pistol AND an AR-15 SBR. They are different things , and each is worthwhile within their own context.

    Before the current era of AR-15 pistols, there were T/C Contenders, and XP-100's , and various other less common things of similar context in RIFLE CAL. They are neither rifles , nor conventional pistols. But as a third catagory they are worthwhile and interesting. AR , AK, etc *pistols* are likewise in a third catagory.
     

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