The United States of Secrets

WeaponsCollector · May 18, 2014

A very informative PBS Frontline production...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUe6qyEXoJQ

Know what could have prevented 9/11? Armed pilots, not a total surveillance state.

Robert · May 18, 2014

Interesting video. The problem is that most of this society would think this and like programs are for our best interest for the longevity and safety of said society.

I happened to disagree..

elwojo · May 19, 2014

Just finished watching part 1 and am more than a little surprised to hear about certain things. Most in particular of that about Thomas Drake. It almost makes me forgive Snowden just the least bit for some of his actions...which is saying a lot.

Docster · May 22, 2014

elwojo said:
Just finished watching part 1 and am more than a little surprised to hear about certain things. Most in particular of that about Thomas Drake. It almost makes me forgive Snowden just the least bit for some of his actions...which is saying a lot.

That's why I've been hesitant to jump on the Condemn Snowden bandwagon. There's probably a lot more going on than we know of but he likely does. I'll wait for more smoke to clear before believing what the government is saying....

Kiev88cm · May 22, 2014

Docster said:
That's why I've been hesitant to jump on the Condemn Snowden bandwagon. There's probably a lot more going on than we know of but he likely does. I'll wait for more smoke to clear before believing what the government is saying....

+1 eggsalad

NY Transplant · May 22, 2014

It gets more interesting in Part 2, especially with the FBI involvement.

csanc123 · May 22, 2014

NY Transplant said:
It gets more interesting in Part 2, especially with the FBI involvement.

56,000 nsl's (national security letters)...WTF!

kcbrown · May 22, 2014

csanc123 said:
56,000 nsl's (national security letters)...WTF!

If you guys haven't figured it out by now, let me spell it out for you: every law that is passed with the intention of helping us nab the bad guys will be used far more for the inappropriate exercise of government power than it will be for the appropriate exercise thereof. They will all be massively abused.

Every.

Single.

One.

This is why, whenever a law is proposed (most especially one which restricts the actions of the citizenry!), the very first question you should be asking is how it can be abused to violate the rights of the good citizenry.

The authors of the Bill of Rights were absolutely correct to have deep distrust of the government, even the one they had just created. If things like the above haven't clued you into that by now, then you'll never understand what liberty is all about, and why government must be entrusted with the minimum amount of power.

NY Transplant · May 23, 2014

csanc123 said:
56,000 nsl's (national security letters)...WTF!

Exactly.

Half-cocked · May 23, 2014

kcbrown said:
If you guys haven't figured it out by now, let me spell it out for you: every law that is passed with the intention of helping us nab the bad guys will be used far more for the inappropriate exercise of government power than it will be for the appropriate exercise thereof. They will all be massively abused.

Every.

Single.

One.

This is why, whenever a law is proposed (most especially one which restricts the actions of the citizenry!), the very first question you should be asking is how it can be abused to violate the rights of the good citizenry.

The authors of the Bill of Rights were absolutely correct to have deep distrust of the government, even the one they had just created. If things like the above haven't clued you into that by now, then you'll never understand what liberty is all about, and why government must be entrusted with the minimum amount of power.

There are people who - still - just don't get this.

If you wonder why, over the past 20-30 years, the greatest transfer of power and wealth in recorded history has been stripped away from America's middle class and given into the hands of a small, obscenely wealthy plutocracy, you do not need the brain of a physicist to understand "how". All of those private communications sucked up by the NSA go somewhere... and if you think the purpose of the NSA is to "defend freedom", I have a bridge to sell you.

csanc123 · May 23, 2014

Half-cocked said:
There are people who - still - just don't get this.

If you wonder why, over the past 20-30 years, the greatest transfer of power and wealth in recorded history has been stripped away from America's middle class and given into the hands of a small, obscenely wealthy plutocracy, you do not need the brain of a physicist to understand "how". All of those private communications sucked up by the NSA go somewhere... and if you think the purpose of the NSA is to "defend freedom", I have a bridge to sell you.

********. The vast majority who work in the NSA are military and civilians that support their missions (whether it's collections, analysis or defense of our IT assets) I won't speak to the motives of those who "run" the intel agencies (to include the NSA) but the people (the grunts) who actually do the work are some of the most patriotic folks you'll ever encounter.

moojersey · May 23, 2014

csanc123 said:
********. The vast majority who work in the NSA are military and civilians that support their missions (whether it's collections, analysis or defense of our IT assets) I won't speak to the motives of those who "run" the intel agencies (to include the NSA) but the people (the grunts) who actually do the work are some of the most patriotic folks you'll ever encounter.

True but they are the sheeple. Exactly they do the grunt work. They don't see the larger picture. I don't think he was questioning patriotism.

I liken it to the INFANTRYMAN who is kicking in the door. All he cares about is getting this house cleared and hopefully getting home. He mostly likely will never fully understand the larger pictures on the operational and strategic levels. It's one door to him, but it may be the overthrow of an entire country on other levels.

Not much different than Iraq and Afghan. Plenty of great Americans over there doing their jobs excellent ... but 13 years later you gotta wonder what is the end game.

Half-cocked · May 23, 2014

csanc123 said:
********. The vast majority who work in the NSA are military and civilians that support their missions (whether it's collections, analysis or defense of our IT assets) I won't speak to the motives of those who "run" the intel agencies (to include the NSA) but the people (the grunts) who actually do the work are some of the most patriotic folks you'll ever encounter.

I have no doubt whatsoever that they are. I have known a lot of them. And I doubt 99% of them even know how the data that they help to collect ends up being used.

5 years ago, the suggestion that the NSA conducted mass-scale surveillance on the private communications of hundreds of millions of people was labelled "********", too. Just something to think about.

elwojo · May 23, 2014

Docster said:
That's why I've been hesitant to jump on the Condemn Snowden bandwagon. There's probably a lot more going on than we know of but he likely does. I'll wait for more smoke to clear before believing what the government is saying....

I think some of what he did is without a doubt treason. Disclosing means and methods of spying on non-US persons? Disclosing what exploitations allowed us to watch over and infiltrate foreign terrorists' networks? None of that helped the US at all - and some of it only helped the bad guys.

There is no plea bargain for him in my mind. He may have done some good, but you don't get exemptions for treason...

WeaponsCollector · May 23, 2014

"Truth is treason is the empire of lies."
- Ron Paul

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
- George Orwell

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."
- James Madison

K.C.Dean · May 23, 2014

elwojo said:
I think some of what he did is without a doubt treason. Disclosing means and methods of spying on non-US persons? Disclosing what exploitations allowed us to watch over and infiltrate foreign terrorists' networks? None of that helped the US at all - and some of it only helped the bad guys.

There is no plea bargain for him in my mind. He may have done some good, but you don't get exemptions for treason...

So what about the people that gave the thumbs up to violate peoples constitutional rights. They should be held accountable even more than Snowden. Bush, Chaney, Hayden etc. Everyone should be in front of a judge and jury defending themselves for their involvement of conspiracy,wire tapping and treason. The people in the video confessed of doing something illegal but no one has been charged of a crime. If they hadn't done the stuff they did then none of the information about gathering intel. on some of our allies would have never been disvlosed by Snowden.

knownalien · May 24, 2014

kcbrown said:
If you guys haven't figured it out by now, let me spell it out for you: every law that is passed with the intention of helping us nab the bad guys will be used far more for the inappropriate exercise of government power than it will be for the appropriate exercise thereof. They will all be massively abused.

Every.

Single.

One.

This is why, whenever a law is proposed (most especially one which restricts the actions of the citizenry!), the very first question you should be asking is how it can be abused to violate the rights of the good citizenry.

The authors of the Bill of Rights were absolutely correct to have deep distrust of the government, even the one they had just created. If things like the above haven't clued you into that by now, then you'll never understand what liberty is all about, and why government must be entrusted with the minimum amount of power.

greatest post like ever!

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

knownalien · May 24, 2014

that video merely scratches the surface. i and others know it is much worse than that.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

The United States of Secrets

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

EXTREME GUN OWNER

Having Fun Yet?

File not found: M:/Liberty.exe

Ultimate Member

KB3ZKX

Wabbit Season/Duck Season

Ultimate Member

Super Genius

Wabbit Season/Duck Season

Senior Meatbag

Ultimate Member

Sic Semper Tyrannis

Senior Meatbag

File not found: M:/Liberty.exe

EXTREME GUN OWNER

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics