MSI, NRA, GOA, 2nd Amend found, MSRPA?

Bullfrog · Feb 14, 2019

Schipperke said:
Until some understand the politicians ARE doing their constituents bidding on Maryland gun laws, they're just going to keep pulling their own hair out. Convince me it's not true. Thousands of souls testifying representing 20% of the electorate doesn't move the sticks much. At least that has been what I've witnessed.

CrazySanMan said:
The politicians don't care about the constituents, that's why you need to get some kind of recall procedure in place.

I think CrazySanMan has a very good point.

Once a recall mechanism is in place, there may be multiple reasons for people to want to exercise it. There are plenty of anti polititians who have screwed over their constituents in other ways as well. When one pushes a bad bill, a vocal, stirred up minority can use the recall process as a carrot and a stick.

Imagine a group like the PP, with 100 times more numbers, loudly advertising ALL of the ways rep Joe Blow has been bad for his voters, not just on 2A. If you can get a majority to agree he needs to be recalled, it doesn't matter that most of the recall supporters may have been in favor of the anti bill that motivated you in the first place. They are supporting the recall process for their own reasons, which you can include in your pro-recall messaging. The anti bill was just the spark that lit the fuse.

We will never have the #'s in MD to claim a majority, however as 2013 and the PP protests show, we have people motivated to get the message out. A recall process provides leverage.

Sealion · Feb 14, 2019

Schipperke said:
What percent of Marylanders even know that any laws are being crafted at the moment.

3%...of course.

Bullfrog · Feb 14, 2019

Schipperke said:
They care about getting 51% of the vote. Maryland is not Colorado, majority of people here do not mind gun laws, and probably support them.

Once a recall process is in place, you don't have to convince 51% to oppose the gun law. You just need to convince 51% that a politician needs to be recalled, and you can stack up a laundry list of reasons why.

honukane · Feb 14, 2019

I sent the ILA a quick note:

"Where is the NRA... Maryland legislative actions this session are going to KILL firearms rights in the state of Maryland. NRA is very silent, almost like the organization simply doesn't give a crap for the rights of Maryland members.
Are you going to get ON it or sit by and let Marylanders get screwed ?"

As a longtime NRA member I am saddened by their continued lack of engagement.

CrazySanMan · Feb 14, 2019

Occam said:
Re: a recall mechanism. Alas, even that wouldn’t help in Maryland, because the very liberal demographics that overwhelmingly place progressives in legislative power and which cheer on any and every (for example) infringing gun bill, will see a recall vote as an opportunity to loudly reaffirm the power of those same politicians.

The problem is cultural. Lefty liberals have won the culture war in places like MoCo, where all the head counts and cash are found. This has happened generationally, with aging hippies from the 60’s being in charge of the public school system. The damage has been baked into an entire generation. When it comes to state politics, they won. Which is why our focus has to be on the courts.

It doesn't have to be just a recall for a gun bill. People don't like politicians. I'm sure each Sine Die, every Maryland citizen is upset about one or more of the new laws that were created. Maybe a rep submitted a bad gun bill and we want him gone, then he also voted against some kind of tranny protection bill so now that community wants him gone as well, and he also voted to raise the alcohol tax so all the beer drinkers and hell raisers want him gone. It's easy to get a lot of people angry at a single politician really quick.

Right now the MGA members can do what they want with no recourse. So many of them have no real opposition in the primaries or general elections that they take re-election for granted. A recall mechanism gives the power back to the people and holds the legislators accountable.

pilot25 · Feb 14, 2019

Schipperke said:
What percent of Marylanders even know that any laws are being crafted at the moment.

Exactly the problem we need to solve.

pilot25 · Feb 14, 2019

honukane said:
I sent the ILA a quick note:

"Where is the NRA... Maryland legislative actions this session are going to KILL firearms rights in the state of Maryland. NRA is very silent, almost like the organization simply doesn't give a crap for the rights of Maryland members.
Are you going to get ON it or sit by and let Marylanders get screwed ?"

As a longtime NRA member I am saddened by their continued lack of engagement.

I did too. I told them there are plenty of people willing to help but the NRA is a leader and we are in desperate need of direction, organization, and leadership. If MSI is heading the litigation front then the NRA should be doing something out in front of this.

I'm mean look at what happened at the NRA building twice. Woman's march from their offices to DC that NRATV covered. COVERED. Not countered. No call for action to do anything. Then their was the event that Rack got arrested. No NRA leaders in sight. I think protesting is a waste of resources but this was in their backyard and not one NRA BOD member or executive was to be found. No one from GOA who are just down the road in Springfield, VA. No one from the 2nd Amend Foundation.

I think we are getting shammed by these organizations.

Occam · Feb 14, 2019

pilot25 said:
Exactly the problem we need to solve.

I'm not sure that's a problem we want to solve. Most of the people in Maryland support and elect the very representatives who are gleefully doing this to us. The voters LIKE it. Yes, most people are completely tuned out of the sausage-making and have no idea what's in the pipeline. But - in Maryland - if more people DID know? They'd APPROVE of it. The legislators doing this to us would love to have more people know about it, because the large majority of Marylanders would heartily support these new bills and probably ask to make them even harsher.

THAT is what we're up against. Our fellow citizens. We're a generation late on getting them to see the entire notion of a constitutional republic and the bill of rights through any sort of informed, rational lens. The more these bills and the thinking behind them are exposed in Maryland the worse it will get, for us. Again, the fight is going to be in the courts. Doesn't mean we shouldn't speak out, on the record, in Annapolis. But that won't change any hearts and minds among the legislators who matter on this, and the big majority of Maryland voters who love them.

RuralRifleGuy · Feb 14, 2019

Schipperke said:
What percent of Marylanders even know that any laws are being crafted at the moment.

pilot25 said:
Exactly the problem we need to solve.

Social media is the easiest way to do this. I’ve done basically nothing with my Facebook page since I set it up but I posted the bullet points from the MSI email last week and a note on how these laws will effect every gun owner in some way. I had one person who liked my page before that post.

A week later and that post has been seen by almost 15K people and almost 3K interacted with it. The 180 shares are by gun owners and the majority of the comments are people who are angry at MD for these bills. There was one who believed they had no chance in passing and another who thought all of these had already passed.

I’ve tried to boost the post so it gets in front of more people but Facebook will not let me. I’m jumping through their hoops to be able to boost it but who knows if they will end up letting me. Social media and good hashtags will get your content in front of people. I’m going to keep pushing things to Facebook and Instagram and hope something can actually be boosted to gain more attention.

fidelity · Feb 14, 2019

pilot25 said:
...
At the airport yesterday, I saw a guy in a LWRC hat. Ask where he was from. Somewhere in MD I never heard of. Asked what he thought of the new gun bills filed. He had no idea what I was talking about.

I haven't been to a gun shop or indoor range in a while but I would think every gun shop and range in MD would have big signs to educate anyone who walked in. ...

You'll be distressed to know that most gun owners visiting gun stores may be currently blissfully unaware. I was in Gunrunners twice this past week. Each time it was busy, so when the proprietor (Bob) was tied up in a conversation, I chatted with some who were waiting. I think 2 of 8 people that I spoke to were aware of some of the pending legislation. Most were not, and some were (naturally) shocked. There's so much not to like in the new proposed legislation. Please note that Bob was mentioning these issues too, and pointing people to MSI handouts that MDSer AOB had dropped off with information. Hopefully some will subscribe to the MSI email blast after reading the handout and consider what they might do to limit/stop the proposed regulations.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

pilot25 · Feb 14, 2019

Occam said:
I'm not sure that's a problem we want to solve.

Just over half, 54%, of the eligible voters voted in the last election. I believe there are way more conservative disenchanted non-voters in MD than their are liberals.

Bigfoot21075 · Feb 14, 2019

pilot25 said:
Just over half, 54%, of the eligible voters voted in the last election. I believe there are way more conservative disenchanted non-voters in MD than their are liberals.

EXACTLY! If we would have had great turn out we would have taken at least some of Maryland back.

pilot25 · Feb 14, 2019

Sealion said:
FYI: MSI sent a helpful email this AM with FAQs.

I know this will anger long time supporters but I typed in MSI Facebook or MSI Twitter.....

MSI ever think about changing it's name? It is definitely not marketable. MSI Gaming already has a stangle hold on the MSI acronym.

Occam · Feb 14, 2019

pilot25 said:
Just over half, 54%, of the eligible voters voted in the last election. I believe there are way more conservative disenchanted non-voters in MD than their are liberals.

I'm SURE there are lots of disenchanted not-flaming-liberal would-be voters out there. But there are also lots of lazy don't-usually-vote nanny-state types. Stirring the pot to make an election hotter brings out BOTH of them. Regardless, the issue is the raw numbers and the political leanings of the voters that have the big numbers. I just spent a minute and a half in Excel. Grabbed recent census records, and a population density map. The gist of it: the three hair-on-fire super liberal counties have more population than the whole rest of the state. That's why things are the way they are.

pilot25 · Feb 14, 2019

Who owns marylandgunowners.org?

No listed entity in ICANN

SCV/SAR Patriot · Feb 14, 2019

Occam said:
I'm SURE there are lots of disenchanted not-flaming-liberal would-be voters out there. But there are also lots of lazy don't-usually-vote nanny-state types. Stirring the pot to make an election hotter brings out BOTH of them. Regardless, the issue is the raw numbers and the political leanings of the voters that have the big numbers. I just spent a minute and a half in Excel. Grabbed recent census records, and a population density map. The gist of it: the three hair-on-fire super liberal counties have more population than the whole rest of the state. That's why things are the way they are.

Speaks volumes and the next several counties down (4-7) also have liberal tendencies or are at least can go either way.

onedash · Feb 14, 2019

Who can make a video worthy of going viral? If you get enough views it starts making it onto the national news even. We need one.

pilot25 · Feb 14, 2019

Occam said:
I'm SURE there are lots of disenchanted not-flaming-liberal would-be voters out there. But there are also lots of lazy don't-usually-vote nanny-state types. Stirring the pot to make an election hotter brings out BOTH of them. Regardless, the issue is the raw numbers and the political leanings of the voters that have the big numbers. I just spent a minute and a half in Excel. Grabbed recent census records, and a population density map. The gist of it: the three hair-on-fire super liberal counties have more population than the whole rest of the state. That's why things are the way they are.

Ok then I'll capitulate that you are correct. (I know, right!!! Someone admitting they are possibly wrong on an anonymous internet forum. It's crazy talk.)

So therefore, MD is a lost state. I think a lot more research is needed to prove your hypothesis but I'll concede because I have a feeling the NRA has done this already and decided MD isn't worth the squeeze.

Then the only thing left is litigation and that has been less than successful. Maybe SCOTUS being overturned now they will take more cases but I'm not holding my breath.

So why am I giving money to any of these organizations?

Occam · Feb 14, 2019

pilot25 said:
Ok then I'll capitulate that you are correct.

I don't want to be, believe me!

So therefore, MD is a lost state.

In terms of who runs the state legislature, who raises the political money (and from where), yeah - it's a generation lost to the left. That's why this can't be solved legislatively.

Then the only thing left is litigation and that has been less than successful. Maybe SCOTUS being overturned now they will take more cases but I'm not holding my breath.

For as mopey as I sound, I actually AM optimistic about push-back on this whole topic, coming through the improving-by-the-day courts. If it had been Hillary Clinton filling up the federal courts (to say nothing of the SCOTUS), things would be dark for the republic indeed. Pitch dark.

So why am I giving money to any of these organizations?

Because when litigation opportunities arise, we need organizations willing and able to take advantage of them.

Biggfoot44 · Feb 14, 2019

And funded to move when needed.

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