MSP Appeals to the Office of Administrative Hearings

GTOGUNNER · Jan 10, 2019

Stoveman said:
Why? Because the MSP believe that G&S is a light bulb that you can turn on or off. On the job? No problem, G&S. Retired more than five years ago? No soup for you, your G&S has an expiration date.

Never mind that the violent felons that you arrested and actually were incarcerated by the criminal justice system might be eventually get out of the grey bar motel.

Same for TS clearances, working for .gov or a contractor, G&S. Retire and *poof*. Never mind the fact that .gov requires you to safeguard the knowledge that is still in your melon for life.

I doubt the Troopers in the LD ever made an arrest. I guess I should check before saying that. Its just fun to say it.

swinokur · Jan 10, 2019

So if MSP/Frosh lose at OAH, do they appeal to the Circuit Court? Is the money pit bottomless?

Muleskinner · Jan 10, 2019

EdHershon said:
And this is why good legal counsel is important

I understand that...But one shouldn't need legal representation to exercise a right...and on top of that spend that kind of money every time it's renewal time.

And IMO eventually even proper legal counsel isn't going to work. The HPRB was suppose to be the end game...MSP denies, applicant appeals, HPRB makes a decision and that WAS the end...either you got your permit, got your restrictions removed or altered or HPRB agreed with MSP...

Now you have another hoop to jump through, possibly 2 more..How long before the GA decides that your expertise no longer carries the weight in these matters that it does now? It appears that the MGA and AG will do anything, say anything and put up roadblocks to issuing permits until the only people eligible to get them are LEOs and Security Guards.

Biggfoot44 · Jan 10, 2019

The additional hoop of Circuit Court has been there since 1972 , just rarely utilized . Was that because of expense ? Because of fear of having a case go against the MSP, and set an actual binding precedent ? I dunno .

Can't necessarily make assumptions about Trooper assignments . Capt Jack was very active against real criminals , before being on short end of office politics, and sent to LD as punishment .

Straightshooter · Jan 10, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
The additional hoop of Circuit Court has been there since 1972 , just rarely utilized . Was that because of expense ? Because of fear of having a case go against the MSP, and set an actual binding precedent ? I dunno .

Can't necessarily make assumptions about Trooper assignments . Capt Jack was very active against real criminals , before being on short end of office politics, and sent to LD as punishment .

Done forget that Capt Jack was also an anti until a few good people here showed him the light.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

danb · Jan 10, 2019

swinokur said:
So if MSP/Frosh lose at OAH, do they appeal to the Circuit Court? Is the money pit bottomless?

Is that even a question? Your tax dollars at work!

Of course they will. The longer the "spigot" is open the harder it is to close. Handing out permits "like candy" is itself a precedent. Not really a spigot, or candy, really like a tiny microscopic drip compared to the # permits issued in say PA, but obviously its the Wild West!! from their perspective.

My 0.02, they are desperately trying to prevent Maryland from becoming like D.C. or Illinois. :omg:

HPRB has been more like a relief valve the last few years. But the harder they fight it out of desperation, the more likely they are to crash the dam and bring on the gunpolcalypse they fear.

Biggfoot44 · Jan 10, 2019

OR , MSP could apply what was NYPD tatics for many years . Play chicken with the citizen , have them pay for lawyer, and legal fees , and if citizen persists all the way, issue the permit in the hallway just before they trial would have started

The case becomes moot , and no chance of setting precedent .

TexDefender · Jan 10, 2019

EdHershon said:
Yes, I believe that there have been 10-15 appeals so far, but that’s only a guesstimate.

If this is the case, then there must be some memorandum from, and I can only assume from the State's Attorney General's office. As this appears to be a sudden change. I would suggest obtaining this Memorandum or Policy Directive.

welder516 · Jan 10, 2019

I am going to lift my own self imposed ban here at MDS because the issues are bigger than all of us . The crap is real and extreme , the stone walling , the cavalier attitudes of the state , MSP and pretty much every state agency .

The money portion the state will spend is no big deal they will spend and really waste whatever amount because Frosh has more power then the Governor in many ways because he & they gave him it . The problem comes in that the person they are screwing and denying will foot the bill .
It will have to come down to ask for 2A Orgs. to fight this along side of "US" a single person can not win this against the state with the way the cards are stacked .

This is all opinion based but from where i am sitting this is what i see from all these post(s)

And for anyone not to believe Frosh is the ring-leader of the MSP and these "new" circumstances has their heads up their arses . (IMHO)

rbird7282 · Jan 10, 2019

swinokur said:
So if MSP/Frosh lose at OAH, do they appeal to the Circuit Court? Is the money pit bottomless?

Of course, it’s just the taxpayer’s money.

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SCV/SAR Patriot · Jan 10, 2019

welder516 said:
I am going to lift my own self imposed ban here at MDS because the issues are bigger than all of us . The crap is real and extreme , the stone walling , the cavalier attitudes of the state , MSP and pretty much every state agency .

The money portion the state will spend is no big deal they will spend and really waste whatever amount because Frosh has more power then the Governor in many ways because he & they gave him it . The problem comes in that the person they are screwing and denying will foot the bill .
It will have to come down to ask for 2A Orgs. to fight this along side of "US" a single person can not win this against the state with the way the cards are stacked .

This is all opinion based but from where i am sitting this is what i see from all these post(s)

Welcome back welder, I missed you!

MJD438 · Jan 10, 2019

welder516 said:
I am going to lift my own self imposed ban here at MDS because the issues are bigger than all of us . The crap is real and extreme , the stone walling , the cavalier attitudes of the state , MSP and pretty much every state agency .

The money portion the state will spend is no big deal they will spend and really waste whatever amount because Frosh has more power then the Governor in many ways because he & they gave him it . The problem comes in that the person they are screwing and denying will foot the bill .
It will have to come down to ask for 2A Orgs. to fight this along side of "US" a single person can not win this against the state with the way the cards are stacked .

This is all opinion based but from where i am sitting this is what i see from all these post(s)

I cannot speak for any 2A Org other than the MSRPA, but I fought against this change, and all other infringement bills, in testimony and in the halls of Annapolis last year and will continue to fight further infringement activities that we expect to see this year.

From a court perspective - lawsuits are a massive expense and, speakly openly, I know my 2A Org doesn't have a Bloomberg/Soros-esque savior providing dollars in bankroll. We are all in the fight and push for protecting our members, all the while watching those memberships rolls dwindle when people complain that "we" don't do anything in this Progressive Democrat stronghold.

TexDefender · Jan 10, 2019

swinokur said:
So if MSP/Frosh lose at OAH, do they appeal to the Circuit Court? Is the money pit bottomless?

Could be, my understand is that the AG budget is separate from the rest of the Maryland's government. So, based on he current round of suing the Federal (Trump) government, I see nothing that would stop him from moving funds around to continue court battles. And I don't doubt it because didn't he say that CCW permits were "Trophies"? He would no doubt like to see all firearms banned and destroyed.

welder516 · Jan 10, 2019

MJD438 said:
I cannot speak for any 2A Org other than the MSRPA, but I fought against this change, and all other infringement bills, in testimony and in the halls of Annapolis last year and will continue to fight further infringement activities that we expect to see this year.

From a court perspective - lawsuits are a massive expense and, speakly openly, I know my 2A Org doesn't have a Bloomberg/Soros-esque savior providing dollars in bankroll. We are all in the fight and push for protecting our members, all the while watching those memberships rolls dwindle when people complain that "we" don't do anything in this Progressive Democrat stronghold.

We need NRA money or even GoFundMeMoney to bank for legal fights . I am not savvy on such things but money in a trust or something like that .

Also a local chapter of the NRA exist what the hell are they doing , who is taking this new system and preparing a defense ???
Is anyone doing the job ???

welder516 · Jan 10, 2019

SCV/SAR Patriot said:
Welcome back welder, I missed you!

Thank You , i missed talking with you & your bride . Hope you both are fine .

TheBert · Jan 10, 2019

EdHershon said:
Today I have had two people reach out to me regarding notifications that they received that the Maryland State Police has appealed the Handgun Review Permit Board decisions to grant a Permit or to modify the existing restrictions.

This has been threatened by the MSP and they seem to intend to make good on their threats.

If someone has demonstrated a good and substantial reason to have been granted a permit, that reason does not stop when a person is no longer “on the clock”.

I believe that this is a substantial threat to people who have demonstrated a good and substantial reason to carry concealed.

It is nice to know that if your appeal at the HRPB is denied that you have a next level of appeal. Thank you MSP.

PJDiesel · Jan 10, 2019

TheBert said:
It is nice to know that if your appeal at the HRPB is denied that you have a next level of appeal. Thank you MSP.

The MSP LD are just straight up dicks, pretty much always have been. It's rare to encounter someone who doesn't have a major attitude.

BeoBill · Jan 10, 2019

Biggfoot44 said:
OR , MSP could apply what was NYPD tatics for many years . Play chicken with the citizen , have them pay for lawyer, and legal fees , and if citizen persists all the way, issue the permit in the hallway just before they trial would have started

The case becomes moot , and no chance of setting precedent .

I recall a cash exchange in some of those transactions. I read it in the NYDN, of all places.

BeoBill · Jan 10, 2019

welder516 said:
I am going to lift my own self imposed ban here at MDS because the issues are bigger than all of us . The crap is real and extreme , the stone walling , the cavalier attitudes of the state , MSP and pretty much every state agency .

The money portion the state will spend is no big deal they will spend and really waste whatever amount because Frosh has more power then the Governor in many ways because he & they gave him it . The problem comes in that the person they are screwing and denying will foot the bill .
It will have to come down to ask for 2A Orgs. to fight this along side of "US" a single person can not win this against the state with the way the cards are stacked .

This is all opinion based but from where i am sitting this is what i see from all these post(s)

And for anyone not to believe Frosh is the ring-leader of the MSP and these "new" circumstances has their heads up their arses . (IMHO)

Concur on all points.

And welcome back to the fight!

dblas · Jan 11, 2019

welder516 said:
We need NRA money or even GoFundMeMoney to bank for legal fights . I am not savvy on such things but money in a trust or something like that .

Also a local chapter of the NRA exist what the hell are they doing , who is taking this new system and preparing a defense ???
Is anyone doing the job ???

I'm going to lift my own self imposed ban, as well, to answer the above.

The state level NRA Organization is the MSRPA, and you replied to their legislative liason.

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