School me on buying a NFA item from gunbroker at this late in the game.

fabsroman · Jun 20, 2016

So, say I found something on gunbroker that I really like (e.g., Noveske SBR in 5.56) and I want to buy it, send it to my FFL, and get my Form 4 in before July 13th. Is that even possible? Does my FFL have to do a Form 3 with me waiting until that comes back before I can do my Form 4?

Is this even a possibility at this point in the game?

What if my dealer has something in stock? Then, the only thing I need to do is a Form 4, correct?

Everything I have done so far has been a Form 1, so this Form 4 stuff is new to me.

Thanks in advance for the help.

5.56blaster · Jun 20, 2016

I did it one time. Biggest pain in the A$$ I ever went through for a firearm. Shop local someone here can can do a Form 4. Yes a form 3 needs to be completed to go dealer to dealer. Why not do a Form 1 and just buy the parts and do it yourself?

fabsroman · Jun 20, 2016

5.56blaster said:
I did it one time. Biggest pain in the A$$ I ever went through for a firearm. Shop local someone here can can do a Form 4. Yes a form 3 needs to be completed to go dealer to dealer. Why not do a Form 1 and just buy the parts and do it yourself?

Because this is for my brother in-law and "do it yourself" might not be a possibility. I already told him to talk to our mutual FFL and pick up 3 lowers for a Form 1 immediately, but he is stuck on a Daniel Defense and Noveske that he has been pondering for a year or more.

Me, I am going Form 1 on everything and making the AR-15 SBRs, the Benelli SBS, and the suppressors. Don't think my brother in-law has the time to deal with all that, but he might not have a choice at this point.

So, will he have to wait for the Form 3 to come back before he can do the Form 4? What happens to all these people waiting on the Form 3 that cannot get it approved before July 13th and therefore cannot submit their Form 4? That is actually a rhetorical question, because I know the answer is "they are SCREWED!"

Only question is whether they need to wait for the Form 3 to come back before submitting the Form 4, or if they can do that right away while the Form 3 is in the pipeline.

Pmbspyder · Jun 20, 2016

fabsroman said:
So, say I found something on gunbroker that I really like (e.g., Noveske SBR in 5.56) and I want to buy it, send it to my FFL, and get my Form 4 in before July 13th. Is that even possible? Does my FFL have to do a Form 3 with me waiting until that comes back before I can do my Form 4?

Is this even a possibility at this point in the game?

What if my dealer has something in stock? Then, the only thing I need to do is a Form 4, correct?

Everything I have done so far has been a Form 1, so this Form 4 stuff is new to me.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Form 3s are taking several months at a minimum, so anything you want in on a form 4 before 41f will need to be in stock at your LGS.

rsideout · Jun 20, 2016

If it is out of state, it will need to transfer to your instate dealer on either a Form 3 or Form 4. Depends how it is currently papered. Form 3 is faster, and cheaper. Form 4 requires 2 tax stamps to get it to you. If it's instate, it will transfer directly to you on a Form 4, even if from an individual. And if direct from an instate individual, No dealer is necessary. If an instate dealer has it in stock, it will also transfer to you on a Form 4. 1 tax stamp fee.

Sorry, No info for you on this relative to the July deadline.

rtse4me · Jun 21, 2016

Form 4 requires a HQL since SBR is a handgun. So you end up getting finger printed any ways.
I think the best method would be buying the Daniel Defense or Noveske as Title 1 and then submit a form 1.

Hawkeye · Jun 21, 2016

fabsroman said:
Only question is whether they need to wait for the Form 3 to come back before submitting the Form 4, or if they can do that right away while the Form 3 is in the pipeline.

Legally? No. There is no requirement that the Form 3 clears before submitting a Form 4. The ATF has clarified this several times lately. Silencer Shop's SOP is to submit the Form 4 a few weeks after the Form 3, and Capital Armory now sends a copy of the Form 3 to the receiving dealer so that they can submit the Form 4 early if they want to.

So there's no legal reason not to, but many dealers are uncomfortable with it.

rtse4me said:
Form 4 requires a HQL since SBR is a handgun. So you end up getting finger printed any ways.
I think the best method would be buying the Daniel Defense or Noveske as Title 1 and then submit a form 1.

Yup. If he doesn't have an HQL he's flat out of luck. Of course, he'll have plenty of time to get one in the indeterminate amount of time between filing the Form 4 and when it comes back...

rsideout · Jun 21, 2016

Hawkeye said:
Legally? No. There is no requirement that the Form 3 clears before submitting a Form 4. The ATF has clarified this several times lately. Silencer Shop's SOP is to submit the Form 4 a few weeks after the Form 3, and Capital Armory now sends a copy of the Form 3 to the receiving dealer so that they can submit the Form 4 early if they want to.

So there's no legal reason not to, but many dealers are uncomfortable with it.

Several years ago I submitted a Form 4 before the Form 3 had been approved. It was done in error after a miscommunication with the out of state dealer. This screwed up the approval of the Form 3. Due to improper input in their system, they no longer showed it owned by the out of state dealer. So he couldn't get transfer to my dealer approved, and if my Form 4 had been approved, it would have been useless. I had speak with a supervisor at ATF to explain what happened and then write a letter to them to remove my Form 4 and put it into a holding pattern behind the Form 3. This probably delayed approval 2 months. But it would have been more if I had not been checking the status and if I didn't know how to get it resolved.

Perhaps things have changed now, but I would not submit early.

Hawkeye · Jun 21, 2016

rsideout said:
Several years ago I submitted a Form 4 before the Form 3 had been approved. It was done in error after a miscommunication with the out of state dealer. This screwed up the approval of the Form 3. Due to improper input in their system, they no longer showed it owned by the out of state dealer. So he couldn't get transfer to my dealer approved, and if my Form 4 had been approved, it would have been useless. I had speak with a supervisor at ATF to explain what happened and then write a letter to them to remove my Form 4 and put it into a holding pattern behind the Form 3. This probably delayed approval 2 months. But it would have been more if I had not been checking the status and if I didn't know how to get it resolved.

Perhaps things have changed now, but I would not submit early.

This is exactly the risk that you run if you submit a 4 before the 3 clears. That's why Capitol Armory is giving you and your SOT the choice of doing so if you want, rather than doing it like Silencer Shop where they just do it for you automatically.

SneakySh0rty · Jun 21, 2016

definitely not enough time before the deadline for a form 3 and from a sale on gunbroker.

Choices are:
find an in-state dealer or resident that has one.
or if you really want a Noveske SBR, you can try to find/buy a noveske lower and form 1 it. Noveske offers completed uppers so you can find the length you want and when approved, assemble. Yea its not a factory SBR and you would have to engrave but does that matter to you?

School me on buying a NFA item from gunbroker at this late in the game.

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