HB1302-"The Neighborhood Bag Lady Can Take Your Guns" bill

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    There was a small thread on this that ended in February so I am starting this new one. This bill is awful. I mean seriously awful. This allows anyone to go down to District Court, hold up their right hand and swear you are a danger to them, to yourself, or to others, and have your guns seized. The bill allows "any interested person" to take out an order. And that means just what it says. Anyone who is interested in you can get your guns seized. Including stalkers.

    Think about it. Estranged relatives, ex-partners and spouses, stalkers, embittered ex-girlfriends and boyfriends, the drunken neighbor you called 911 on when he was beating his wife, the guy you called 911 on and reported for DWI one day in traffic, the employee you fired for stealing, the co-worker you reported for sexual harassment, your druggie relative who you won't give money to, the Facebook troll who despises your online politics and lives in or near Maryland, even the crazy bag lady who hates you because she thinks your cat is stealing her soul when it stares at her from your window, anybody who doesn't like you can get your guns seized. All they have to do is accuse you of threatening them.

    Some arguments we will hear for this bill:

    1. "Oh they need a preponderance of evidence." Yes, and since the respondent has no right to be notified of or heard during the initial application, the preponderance of evidence will be whatever the accuser says it is.

    2. "It has to be sworn under penalty of perjury." Means nothing. As if people care or are intimidated by that. Especially crazy people or veterans of the criminal or civil justice system. It's been shown they don't. And perjury prosecutions won't happen. First off, most of the applications will simply be one person's word against another, and no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that anyone lied.

    And ask people who say that to name you one, one single prosecution for perjury ever conducted anywhere in this state on any application for an ex-parte in the three decades that we've had them. I'll bet they can't. Even though ex-parte applications are lied on very frequently and used simply as tools in divorce and child support cases. I was a cop for 25 years and I never saw a prosecutor ever even consider it or mention it, even when the lies were bold and obvious. And everyone in the legal system knows it. Heck, you even have attorneys telling their divorce clients to think of "something" they can file an ex-parte on as a bargaining chip.

    3. "You can sue people who lie about you and take out one of these." More ********. The law specifically grants civil immunity for those who file "in good faith." And when it's one person's word against another, how will you prove it wasn't applied for in good faith.

    4. "It's only six days and you can have the guns back if the court doesn't find cause." ********. The law says you "may" have them back after six days. It puts no time constraint requiring police to give them back that fast. It cannot be done that fast. I know. I handled the returns for a police department. It takes a couple of months on average. And if a person has things like another person with a similar name and DOB with a murky criminal history, it can be a lot longer. A lot of criminal histories, especially in the city, are horribly incomplete and sometimes old dispositions can't even be resolved after lengthy hand searches.

    This is a bad, bad bill and will require all MD gun owners to walk on eggshells, and not make anyone upset with them for any reason, no matter how justified and legal. Don't report anyone who sexually harasses you at work, don't call the police on anyone even if you have a really important reason, don't make your teenage daughter's stalker mad by taking out a peace order against him. Just hide in the shadows. This bill is a domestic violence criminal's dream.

    The bill is in the Senate, First Reading. It needs to be stopped there. Write and call your senators. The spineless Republicans in the House caved on it almost to a man. And our equally vacillating Governor has indicated he will sign it. At a minimum, if it cannot be stopped the "any interested person" clause needs to be taken out and the bill made only to apply to medical practitioners and law enforcement as it was initially intended.



    http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018RS/bills/hb/hb1302t.pdf
     
    Last edited:

    mac1_131

    MSI Executive Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 31, 2009
    3,280
    Great great summary but why did you put it in national 2A issues?

    I'll be sending some letters and emails tomorrow quoting your points.
     

    5cary

    On the spreading edge of the butter knife.
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2007
    3,635
    Sykesville, MD
    Thanks for the info. I'll be calling.

    ...and all the "controls" put in place to protect you would be trusted under the naive assumption that those hearing the "preponderance of evidence" and "good faith applications" aren't already inclined to take your guns.
     

    JPG

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 5, 2012
    6,996
    Calvert County
    People should use this law against every politician who votes for this. Once their guns are gone their tune will change or the law will. :D
     

    Engine4

    Curmudgeon
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2012
    6,983
    the Facebook troll who despises your online politics and lives in or near Maryland

    This is what's been worrying me. I post things every once in awhile on the wife's FB page since I don't have one. Lately I've been asking lib politicians why they've pushed these anti gun bills & inevitably their trolls try to engage me in arguments. This bill will stifle any outlet we have to get our points across. Of course, I'm sure that's the real reason for it.
     

    zoostation

    , ,
    Moderator
    Jan 28, 2007
    22,857
    Abingdon
    This is what's been worrying me. I post things every once in awhile on the wife's FB page since I don't have one. Lately I've been asking lib politicians why they've pushed these anti gun bills & inevitably their trolls try to engage me in arguments. This bill will stifle any outlet we have to get our points across. Of course, I'm sure that's the real reason for it.

    Or another example I thought of is people who are lawfully protesting on a sidewalk. The Politburo has already shown their displeasure with that. All it takes is one psycho munchie mom to walk by and invent a story that "he seriously threatened me when no one was looking, that one right there," have an officer get his info, and she goes down and gets an order to get a picketer's gun seized. And sure it might get thrown out in six days, and he'll get his guns back in a few months (hopefully he won't want to go hunting, target shooting, or defending his home from an armed burglar in that time frame) but there won't be much he can do about it. She says he said it off camera, he says he didn't. Reasonable doubt. No criminal charges. Can't prove bad faith. No civil lawsuit.

    With this law people can just screw gun owners over all they want for fun and games with little or no possibility of consequences. And in the current political climate, that's a very bad thing.
     

    Rack&Roll

    R.I.P
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    22,304
    Bunkerville, MD
    Thank you Zoostation for this EXCELLENT summary of this vicious trap door that is being set up.

    This attack on our community was spearheaded by House Judiciary Vice Chair Kathleen Dumais—a very nasty divorce lawyer in MoCo during times she is not infringing on the Constitution in Annapolis.

    HB1302 is yet another bill being used as a choke-out maneuver against the people who vote for the sponsor’s political OPPONENTS.

    On Monday night in Annapolis at 7pm, the Patriot Picket will be pushing back—with signage—on this crude Soviet style attempt to punish us, and we need you to help.
     

    Jim12

    Let Freedom Ring
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2013
    33,861
    Or another example I thought of is people who are lawfully protesting on a sidewalk. The Politburo has already shown their displeasure with that. All it takes is one psycho munchie mom to walk by and invent a story that "he seriously threatened me when no one was looking, that one right there," have an officer get his info, and she goes down and gets an order to get a picketer's gun seized. And sure it might get thrown out in six days, and he'll get his guns back in a few months (hopefully he won't want to go hunting, target shooting, or defending his home from an armed burglar in that time frame) but there won't be much he can do about it. She says he said it off camera, he says he didn't. Reasonable doubt. No criminal charges. Can't prove bad faith. No civil lawsuit.

    With this law people can just screw gun owners over all they want for fun and games with little or no possibility of consequences. And in the current political climate, that's a very bad thing.

    Sounds like this is exactly what the sponsors intend -- or at least the continual threat and worry of it happening. And drag everybody into court.

    Part of making the exercise of one's 2A rights a burden and potential liability.
     

    Jaybeez

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Patriot Picket
    May 30, 2006
    6,392
    Darlington MD
    Let's see, Mike Miller claims to own "many" guns, and he is certainly a SERIOUS danger to all lawful Maryland gun owners ....

    He down threaten to come in with machine guns and bury republicans 6 feet under.

    Direct quotes from him in the past..
     

    Jaybeez

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Patriot Picket
    May 30, 2006
    6,392
    Darlington MD
    Or another example I thought of is people who are lawfully protesting on a sidewalk. The Politburo has already shown their displeasure with that. All it takes is one psycho munchie mom to walk by and invent a story that "he seriously threatened me when no one was looking, that one right there," ...

    This has basically happened already. It was used to slander the PP. Most recently after Jeff and Kevin's arrest.
     

    Rack&Roll

    R.I.P
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    22,304
    Bunkerville, MD
    You can see for yourself the “interested persons” (2nd Amendment Hater) category in the middle of the text below:
    .
     

    Attachments

    • 75946456-E9EE-4FFC-ACB3-C6F0CA172EE7.jpg
      75946456-E9EE-4FFC-ACB3-C6F0CA172EE7.jpg
      86 KB · Views: 1,229

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,921
    Messages
    7,259,000
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom