Are manufacturers missing out on a home defense revolver market?

AliasNeo07 · Jul 4, 2017

smokey0118 said:
There is one good thing about the nature of malfunctions in handguns and how to move past it that makes a revolver great for someone without much training... ammo-related malfunctions. They're probably the most common reason why a gun would click instead of bang, so check out the way a shooter would move past it and get the gun back up for another shot....

semi-auto:
1) press trigger
2) *click*
3) recognize malfunction and consciously switch motor programs to clear it
4) seat the mag
5) rack the slide
6) reacquire grip/sights
7) press trigger

revolver:
1) press trigger
2)*click*
3) press trigger

....and that to me is one of the revolver's biggest advantages under stress for a new shooter. If an ammo-related malfunction happens, the shooter just continues what they were already doing. They don't need to switch motor programs, or even recognize that a malfunction has occurred at all. Simply pressing the trigger again revolves the cylinder to a new chamber and the shots continue.

For purse/pocket carry, a revolver can also be great. Their rounded lines seem to print less, and because they don't have a reciprocating slide, a hammerless revolver can be fired repeatedly from within a bag or pocket.

Oh, I agree completely. Revolvers are simpler, and I definitely agree they have a place. Your points about simplicity and the ability to be fired from a pocket or purse, and overcoming malfunctions are good ones. I just think the reliability portion of the argument is overstated. There are still out there who believe if you fire 100 rounds through a semi auto, you will get at least one malfunction, just because they're semi auto. Those people are still out there. I hear them at gun stores (customers, not employees) and I hear them at the range.

Blaster229 · Jul 4, 2017

Armadillofz1 said:

For reals yo!

pbharvey · Jul 4, 2017

Trepang said:
4" S&W .357 686+ (7 rounds) hidden near the front door - within reach when answering the door if needed.

Loaded with .357 Mag 158 grain Speer Gold Dot JHPs.

HordesOfKailas said:
Great gun. Have the same except for a 6" barrel. Solid HD gun IMO.

This is the go to gun for the females in my home. Instructions are: open the safe, point it at the bad guy's chest, pull the trigger.
No lights, no optics, no bells, no whistles. Also no magnum loads; 38 special +p.

LibertyGun · Jul 4, 2017

AliasNeo07 said:
That is the same logic people who want to ban normal capacity mags make. Just saying.

I wasn't going to jump in but I am in an argumentative mood tonight :-)

I think revolvers definitely have their place. Are they as necessary as they were 40 years ago? Definitely not. Revolvers may make a good backup gun for some people, or they may make a good gun for someone who doesn't have the strength to properly run a semi automatic. Other than that, and specialty applications (snake shot, etc) or for the range, I don't see much use for them.

My problem is with people who still whine about revolvers being more reliable than semi-autos. I'm sorry, but that is bull. I have fired probably 25-30k through centerfire semi autos (so, I am not counting .22 pistols) and how many malfunctions have I had? And no, I'm not talking about categorizing them by user induced, ammo related, mag related blah blah blah, I am speaking of all malfunctions. One. And that malfunction was with a plastic snap cap that I mixed in with live rounds. I am no pro shooter or anything near that, but still, it is a data point. Around 30k rounds with one malfunction (and it was with a snap cap). Am I the exception to the rule? I don't think so.

Personally the only reason I would ever own one is for the cool factor. Who doesn't smile when they see a Smith model 29 with a 6.5 inch barrel? But, that doesn't mean they aren't right for other folks.

smokey0118 said:
There is one good thing about the nature of malfunctions in handguns and how to move past it that makes a revolver great for someone without much training... ammo-related malfunctions. They're probably the most common reason why a gun would click instead of bang, so check out the way a shooter would move past it and get the gun back up for another shot....

semi-auto:
1) press trigger
2) *click*
3) recognize malfunction and consciously switch motor programs to clear it
4) seat the mag
5) rack the slide
6) reacquire grip/sights
7) press trigger

revolver:
1) press trigger
2)*click*
3) press trigger

....and that to me is one of the revolver's biggest advantages under stress for a new shooter. If an ammo-related malfunction happens, the shooter just continues what they were already doing. They don't need to switch motor programs, or even recognize that a malfunction has occurred at all. Simply pressing the trigger again revolves the cylinder to a new chamber and the shots continue.

For purse/pocket carry, a revolver can also be great. Their rounded lines seem to print less, and because they don't have a reciprocating slide, a hammerless revolver can be fired repeatedly from within a bag or pocket.

Revolvers are definitely more reliable. Semi's have closed the gap but they can never completely get there because there are just more things that can go wrong and if you are going to own and use a semi, you have to be prepared to deal with the failure modes.

I'm sure some have shot 30k rounds through semis with 0 malfunctions but that's definitely not everyone. My first purchase was a Sig P250 that turned out to be a jam-o-matic that I had to send back. I'm talking about a market of people that don't want to deal with that kind of issue in the first place.

I have had many ammo related issues but that is from trying out cheap ammo for range, I use quality ammo in for defense.

And the point of all this is that people WANT wheelguns and I think there is an untapped market of people that would buy them if they were in the right format. Whether or not we think they should really be using a semi-auto is irrelevant. It's America, we can have it our way.

AliasNeo07 · Jul 5, 2017

LibertyGun said:
Revolvers are definitely more reliable. Semi's have closed the gap but they can never completely get there because there are just more things that can go wrong and if you are going to own and use a semi, you have to be prepared to deal with the failure modes.

I'm sure some have shot 30k rounds through semis with 0 malfunctions but that's definitely not everyone. My first purchase was a Sig P250 that turned out to be a jam-o-matic that I had to send back. I'm talking about a market of people that don't want to deal with that kind of issue in the first place.

I have had many ammo related issues but that is from trying out cheap ammo for range, I use quality ammo in for defense.

And the point of all this is that people WANT wheelguns and I think there is an untapped market of people that would buy them if they were in the right format. Whether or not we think they should really be using a semi-auto is irrelevant. It's America, we can have it our way.

I take no position on whether others should use semis or revolvers. I just stated my personal preference. Like I said, I think they do have their place and I completely understand your point of view. I can think of various circumstances where I would recommend one to a friend or family member. I am not revolver hating.

...i just don't agree with the reliability part of it. I think modern semi autos are just as reliable. Some revolver owners (not you necessarily) have this misconception that revolvers can't malfunction. They can. There are timing issues, issues relating to exposed hammers, etc.

If I had to put 10,000 rounds through a revolver and some off-shoot 1911 and put money on it, I'd take the revolver. If I had to choose between a revolver, or an out of the box Glock, M&P, PPQ, etc, I would flip a coin. Just my opinion.

Blaster has probably put more rounds through a handgun than I ever will, and I know he's lurking in this thread :lol:

What is your experience with the reliability of semi-autos?

Biggfoot44 · Jul 5, 2017

I never said I can'r shoot semi's , I Like revolvers on purpose.

Faster , more precise, first shot hits . Only hits count.

ohen cepel · Jul 5, 2017

Millions live in states where they can't have a magazine which holds more than 10rds. In those instances an 8rd revolver gains more on a 10rd semi. That 33rd "happy stick" is off the table in those places.

smokey · Jul 5, 2017

AliasNeo07 said:
I take no position on whether others should use semis or revolvers. I just stated my personal preference. Like I said, I think they do have their place and I completely understand your point of view. I can think of various circumstances where I would recommend one to a friend or family member. I am not revolver hating.

...i just don't agree with the reliability part of it. I think modern semi autos are just as reliable. Some revolver owners (not you necessarily) have this misconception that revolvers can't malfunction. They can. There are timing issues, issues relating to exposed hammers, etc.

If I had to put 10,000 rounds through a revolver and some off-shoot 1911 and put money on it, I'd take the revolver. If I had to choose between a revolver, or an out of the box Glock, M&P, PPQ, etc, I would flip a coin. Just my opinion.

Blaster has probably put more rounds through a handgun than I ever will, and I know he's lurking in this thread What is your experience with the reliability of semi-autos?

Yup, and along with timing issues, cranes can bend, all of the springs can wear/fail, brass can get jammed in the cylinder and jam up the works. In a lot of ways, something like a 686 is a more vulnerable firearm to damage and wear than a glock or usp...especially once you start introducing stuff like mud and sand. Theoretically, there's also more that can go wrong in machining that can negatively impact accuracy as well, since all the chambers need to be similar....again contributing to the cost.

smokey · Jul 5, 2017

ohen cepel said:
Millions live in states where they can't have a magazine which holds more than 10rds. In those instances an 8rd revolver gains more on a 10rd semi. That 33rd "happy stick" is off the table in those places.

indeed

traveller · Jul 5, 2017

Armadillofz1 said:

You can't make this shit up.

Blaster229 · Jul 5, 2017

AliasNeo07 said:
Blaster has probably put more rounds through a handgun than I ever will, and I know he's lurking in this thread What is your experience with the reliability of semi-autos?

I have never had a malfunction. Ever.
Couple initial fail to feeds on a new 1911. But I don't consider that a malfunction. That was remedied with a polish job on the feed ramp.
I knew a P229 to go 15k rounds without cleaning, just lube. The reason it went only 15k, is because the armorer just got tired going on with the experiment.

I'm just going to say this. If your wife doesn't have a hammerless revolver in the nightstand or next to it, then you might want to rethink female defense in the home. That's what this original thread is about, right?
I want mine to have a fighting chance to be able to shoot from under the blanket/in bed, FROM the bed, etc...
The worst case scenario is they need to shoot someone who is on top of them. Revolvers afford a better chance at that.
That's not happening with a Glock with a big stick of 33 rounds.
That's my major home defense scenario. There are semis throughout the house to grab for other break in scenarios. The revolver fits my break in bed room scenario for HER.
She's not me and she won't be with a semi, because I don't have the time it takes, nor does she have the desire it takes to get there. And that's fine too.

redeemed.man · Jul 5, 2017

Blaster229 said:
I have never had a malfunction. Ever.
Couple initial fail to feeds on a new 1911. But I don't consider that a malfunction. That was remedied with a polish job on the feed ramp.
I knew a P229 to go 15k rounds without cleaning, just lube. The reason it went only 15k, is because the armorer just got tired going on with the experiment.

I'm just going to say this. If your wife doesn't have a hammerless revolver in the nightstand or next to it, then you might want to rethink female defense in the home. That's what this original thread is about, right?
I want mine to have a fighting chance to be able to shoot from under the blanket/in bed, FROM the bed, etc...
The worst case scenario is they need to shoot someone who is on top of them. Revolvers afford a better chance at that.
That's not happening with a Glock with a big stick of 33 rounds.
That's my major home defense scenario. There are semis throughout the house to grab for other break in scenarios. The revolver fits my break in bed room scenario for HER.
She's not me and she won't be with a semi, because I don't have the time it takes, nor does she have the desire it takes to get there. And that's fine too.

great post

Biggfoot44 · Jul 5, 2017

I hadn't yet gone there about reliability, but I am in a position to make observations.

In absolute raw numbers revolvers, revolvers and " good quality semiautomatics " are essentially equal . But the contexts are very different.

Semiautomatics have a much longer list of prerequisites. Good design and good quality. Reasonably clean. Well & suitably lubricated . Good quality ammo , of suitable nose design and other charistics amenable to proper cycling in that pistol.

Revolvers have much shorter list of prerequisites. Decent quality revolver. Ammo that fits the cylnder, and isn't grossly over pressure. That either goes Bang or Click ( just so long as not a as quib that leaves a bullet in the bore ).

Malfunctions with revolvers usually occur during high volume sesssions. Most typical are unburned powder under the ejector star, or the ejector rod backing out.

The other issues exist, but aren't sudden onset. Firing pins with develope cracks before breaking off . Timing, endshake, and crane springing will gradually occur, and can be quite a bit beyond factory spec, and still go Bang .

Revolvers are far more tolerent of neglect than semi's. . This is a big factor for Home Defense . The critical issue is " has the cylinder rusted to the point it won't turn ? " Whereas a semi must be periodically relubed even if not fired , due to migration and drying out

Waz · Jul 5, 2017

LibertyGun said:
So this is the refined spec after getting all the great feedback here:

Target market: people who want a home defense "nightstand" gun, that will have minimal training, need ultimate in simplicity, will never consider a gun with a slide or magazines. They are recoil averse and want small rounds.

Spec:
- Med-large frame SA/DA revolver, light poly or alloy to minimize weight
- Large cylinder to hold 9-10 rounds
- 38 spl, 9mm, 380 ACP, 327 Fed, 32 H&R mag, or 32 ACP
- Rails - preferably top and bottom (crimson trace grips could reduce this need to just a bottom rail for a light, although CT adds considerable cost)
- Optimized for short range home defense (ie do not bother with features for carry, target shooting, long range shooting, hunting, etc...)
- Assortment of grip sizes ESPECIALLY for smaller hands
- Trigger pull on the lighter side as possible
- Inexpensive (sub $1k, $500 sweet spot)

There's the Taurus 608. You can send it off to a custom gunsmith shop like Aimpro Tactical that can add an underlug rail for laser or light. it'll run you a little more than $500 but will also keep you well under $1000

http://www.aimprotactical.com/taurus_custom.htm

LibertyGun · Jul 5, 2017

Blaster229 said:
I have never had a malfunction. Ever.
I'm just going to say this. If your wife doesn't have a hammerless revolver in the nightstand or next to it, then you might want to rethink female defense in the home. That's what this original thread is about, right?
I want mine to have a fighting chance to be able to shoot from under the blanket/in bed, FROM the bed, etc...
The worst case scenario is they need to shoot someone who is on top of them. Revolvers afford a better chance at that.
That's not happening with a Glock with a big stick of 33 rounds.
That's my major home defense scenario. There are semis throughout the house to grab for other break in scenarios. The revolver fits my break in bed room scenario for HER.
She's not me and she won't be with a semi, because I don't have the time it takes, nor does she have the desire it takes to get there. And that's fine too.

Yes! Thank you for that eloquence, that is what this thread is about. It's not a revolver vs. semi, it's questioning why we have revolver models to cover many uses but none specialized for HD and for the group of people that your wife may fall into ie. "nor does she have the desire it takes to get there".

I might be over-thinking it and perhaps like you say, a regular hammer-less in the nightstand is all that is needed. I'm just thinking manufacturers could specialize a revolver model more for HD and this group of people: add smaller grips, sacrifice powerful round capability (e.g 357) and carry-ability to allow more rounds in the same size or slightly larger cylinder, and add some rails.

I can see a lot of dudes buying and tricking out such a thing for their partners, as well as both women and men whose commitment level is they might shoot a box or two at the range each year, buying it for themselves. I think its an untapped market that may be large enough for manufacturers to make money and be worth their while.

Inigoes · Jul 5, 2017

Only when a threaded barrel, gas-sealed revolver is an option again.

knastera · Jul 5, 2017

Inigoes said:
Only when a threaded barrel, gas-sealed revolver is an option again.

It's been a long time since 1895, know what I mean?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

molonlabe · Jul 5, 2017

I have to add that the only failure I ever had with a Glock 17 is when my wife first shot it. It stovepipe over and over. I didn't have a problem with it until I limp wristed it then I realized and corrected her technique. Her current piece is a Kimber solo that has never jammed. Still she has the .38 special by her bedside her choice. That May change since I fitted the Kimber with a Crimson trace.

j_h_smith · Jul 6, 2017

Here's an interesting article. Talking about how to optimize your chances.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/ar...wsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=0717

lkenefic · Jul 11, 2017

FWIW... I believe it was FBI statistics that determined most shootings in a self defense situation occurred at less than 7 yards and only 3 rounds were fired. Obviously, I have more than this on hand, but if one is only armed with a 6 shot revolver I dot think it's being under gunned in most situations.

Are manufacturers missing out on a home defense revolver market?

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