Red Flag info mtg Edgewater AAPD

Combloc · Apr 22, 2019

Looks like some of fabsroman's posts went a-missin'. Hmmmmmm

PJDiesel · Apr 22, 2019

44man said:
Funny how some here are all for infringements then claim to be a friend of the 2a.

Those two things don’t go together.

And any gun owners in md who haven’t prepared for being red flagged are foolish. No ones immune from the crazy cat lady telling an average anti cop any old thing and getting that rap on the door at 4am and having their lives changed in a matter of minutes.

Will it happen to every gun owner? Probably not but it will drive gun owners to be like bumpstock owners and they will keep their toys outta sight and locked in the safe.

That has the same effect as as banning guns if you can’t take them out and use them.

Sometimes I am glad to be an old sick man.

Don't be shy,.... be specific.

Bob A · Apr 22, 2019

Combloc said:
I guess it depends on what your neighbors think of firearms, how libtard they are and whether or not they know about red flag laws. Do you think there is any possibility that, if you lived beside a rabid, moronic gun-grabber, they might want to make life hard on you because they think only police and military should have firearms?

This cuts to the heart of the matter. ^^^

It's all very well to have faith in one's fellow man, but the reality is far different from the Progressive view.

Not only does evil exist, in the face of which we arm ourselves to protect ourselves and our families. It also exists where the seeds have been planted in the more or less feeble minds of our very impressionable, if not insightful, neighbors.

I'm not interested in trying to convert the masses in Takoma to accept the Bill of Rights, or to abandon their Hillary campaign signs, or the "RESIST" signs that pop up like mushrooms on ******** throughout the area. My concern is that the local peasantry will drop a dime on the local PD if they see me with a firearm, however legal it may be. I can't afford to lose all my rights, nor to have my collection seized and perhaps damaged, to comfort some indoctrinated mouth-breather who soiled his/her undies when they saw me load/unload my car for a range trip.

Maryland is becoming too dangerous to live in for people like me. I mentioned this to the General Assembly, but they didn't seem to care; in fact, it seemed to me that they found the concept welcome.

I might feel otherwise if I lived far from an urban area, but the risknis only slightly diminished. There are enough individuals in this state who are unbalanced enough to violate my rights out of spite, anger, fear, or due to their being indoctrinated in the "guns are bad" message that is all they hear from the media and their pet politicians - perjury be damned. They willingly embrace perjury, because they feel the end justifies any action they care to take. Of course, they are protected from penalties, which only fall on their victims.

ERPO is an evil law, unnecessary and dangerous. So "only" one innocent citizen has been murdered so far, that makes it OK?

Not in my world.

Chamberlains of the world unite! You have nothing to lose except your liberty, your fortune, your families and your life. (But that comes later).

Peace In Our Time, through the Power of Appeasement!

44man · Apr 22, 2019

PJDiesel said:
Don't be shy,.... be specific.

Some of my posts in this thread have already disappeared, so now I tread lightly.

But anyone can put two and two together to get four

44man · Apr 22, 2019

Bob A said:
This cuts to the heart of the matter. ^^^

It's all very well to have faith in one's fellow man, but the reality is far different from the Progressive view.

Not only does evil exist, in the face of which we arm ourselves to protect ourselves and our families. It also exists where the seeds have been planted in the more or less feeble minds of our very impressionable, if not insightful, neighbors.

I'm not interested in trying to convert the masses in Takoma to accept the Bill of Rights, or to abandon their Hillary campaign signs, or the "RESIST" signs that pop up like mushrooms on ******** throughout the area. My concern is that the local peasantry will drop a dime on the local PD if they see me with a firearm, however legal it may be. I can't afford to lose all my rights, nor to have my collection seized and perhaps damaged, to comfort some indoctrinated mouth-breather who soiled his/her undies when they saw me load/unload my car for a range trip.

Maryland is becoming too dangerous to live in for people like me. I mentioned this to the General Assembly, but they didn't seem to care; in fact, it seemed to me that they found the concept welcome.

I might feel otherwise if I lived far from an urban area, but the risknis only slightly diminished. There are enough individuals in this state who are unbalanced enough to violate my rights out of spite, anger, fear, or due to their being indoctrinated in the "guns are bad" message that is all they hear from the media and their pet politicians - perjury be damned. They willingly embrace perjury, because they feel the end justifies any action they care to take. Of course, they are protected from penalties, which only fall on their victims.

ERPO is an evil law, unnecessary and dangerous. So "only" one innocent citizen has been murdered so far, that makes it OK?

Not in my world.

Chamberlains of the world unite! You have nothing to lose except your liberty, your fortune, your families and your life. (But that comes later).

Peace In Our Time, through the Power of Appeasement!

Great post

fabsroman · Apr 22, 2019

Occam said:
FFS, it's a RHETORICAL EXAMPLE! I consider lower Montgomery County - one of the single wealthiest places on the planet and with the highest per capita rate of millionaires in the country - to be a rough neighborhood indeed, when it comes to tolerance for any ideology or act outside of arch-liberal dogma (especially things like being "that house that has guns!"). We're here by several twists of fate, and can't just flip a switch.

Our last neighborhood went - in just a matter of a few short years - from being a solidly middle class spot to an MS-13-infested wasteland of people abandoning their mortgages and yanking their kids out of the local schools because of a sustained wave of crime. Many people can't just decide to sell their home at a huge loss and move to a new place that's got fewer weekend gang stabbings for only a couple hundred thousand more dollars than the equity they have to give up on to literally save their kids' lives.

We went from a "safe full of guns we'd had for decades" family in a neighborhood with cops, military vets, and other folks for whom that would be perfect fodder for chat over a cold beer and some BBQ ... to a family where we had to hunker down, fortify, and eventually bug out in a very painful way. Don't lecture about "what one ought to do..." because we've been there. Watched it ruin the lives of several good neighbors from different walks of life. I don't worry about MS-13 next door now, but instead the rabid Mom Demanding Compliance types who are every bit as sinister, but not as good in a knife fight.

Deleted to help keep this on track, especially since this has been a rather informative thread about how police are handling the ERPO in parts of Anne Arundel County.

fabsroman · Apr 22, 2019

Combloc said:
Looks like some of fabsroman's posts went a-missin'. Hmmmmmm

Did not notice that. Will delete my last one then too.

fabsroman · Apr 22, 2019

Bob A said:
This cuts to the heart of the matter. ^^^

It's all very well to have faith in one's fellow man, but the reality is far different from the Progressive view.

Not only does evil exist, in the face of which we arm ourselves to protect ourselves and our families. It also exists where the seeds have been planted in the more or less feeble minds of our very impressionable, if not insightful, neighbors.

I'm not interested in trying to convert the masses in Takoma to accept the Bill of Rights, or to abandon their Hillary campaign signs, or the "RESIST" signs that pop up like mushrooms on ******** throughout the area. My concern is that the local peasantry will drop a dime on the local PD if they see me with a firearm, however legal it may be. I can't afford to lose all my rights, nor to have my collection seized and perhaps damaged, to comfort some indoctrinated mouth-breather who soiled his/her undies when they saw me load/unload my car for a range trip.

Maryland is becoming too dangerous to live in for people like me. I mentioned this to the General Assembly, but they didn't seem to care; in fact, it seemed to me that they found the concept welcome.

I might feel otherwise if I lived far from an urban area, but the risknis only slightly diminished. There are enough individuals in this state who are unbalanced enough to violate my rights out of spite, anger, fear, or due to their being indoctrinated in the "guns are bad" message that is all they hear from the media and their pet politicians - perjury be damned. They willingly embrace perjury, because they feel the end justifies any action they care to take. Of course, they are protected from penalties, which only fall on their victims.

ERPO is an evil law, unnecessary and dangerous. So "only" one innocent citizen has been murdered so far, that makes it OK?

Not in my world.

Chamberlains of the world unite! You have nothing to lose except your liberty, your fortune, your families and your life. (But that comes later).

Peace In Our Time, through the Power of Appeasement!

How innocent was Gary Willis?

If he wasn't in his house when he discharged the handgun while struggling with officers, would everybody here have been alright with it? If I opened my car door and greeted officers with a handgun, would I be "innocent"?

I am relying on the facts from this news article:

https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2018/11/05/fatal-officer-involved-shooting-in-anne-arundel-county/

Correct the facts for me if they are incorrect, because we all know that the media isn't always correct.

Mister Willis opened the door to two LEOs and had a handgun in hand. He put it on the floor. Then, as they served him with the ERPO he went and grabbed the handgun off the floor. An LEO started to struggle with Mr. Willis to remove the handgun from him and Mr. Willis fired a shot.

Sounds just like a lot of people that are told to put their hands up, but refuse. They decide not to comply, and then they get shot to death by LEOs. We are alright with that, correct? So, why is it any different with Mr. Willis if the facts above are correct?

If you decide not to comply, there are consequences, whether it be in your vehicle, on the sidewalk, in the street, or in your home once you answer the door and invite the officers in.

This thread is good to help people understand what their rights are and whether they actually need to answer the door in the first place.

Time to order some more hard cases from Cabelas to make sure they are available should an ERPO get served on me.

Bob A · Apr 22, 2019

How innocent was Gary Willis, until he opened the door to a surprise visit at 5AM?

Completely innocent.

How much risk was he put to by a sister-in-law who violently disagreed with his opinions, and chose to win the argument by red-flagging him?

Apparently mortal, existential risk.

Opinions matter in MD, especially if they are not the opinions validated by the MD GA. His death was unnecessary. There was no real need for police intervention.

Don't make any sudden moves. Except maybe out of MD.

mac1_131 · Apr 22, 2019

Combloc said:
Looks like some of fabsroman's posts went a-missin'. Hmmmmmm

Who?

fabsroman · Apr 22, 2019

Bob A said:
How innocent was Gary Willis, until he opened the door to a surprise visit at 5AM?

Completely innocent.

How much risk was he put to by a sister-in-law who violently disagreed with his opinions, and chose to win the argument by red-flagging him?

Apparently mortal, existential risk.

Opinions matter in MD, especially if they are not the opinions validated by the MD GA. His death was unnecessary. There was no real need for police intervention.

Don't make any sudden moves. Except maybe out of MD.

Mister Willis' death was necessary once he decided to pick up his handgun in front of the LEOs. My guess is they instructed him not to pick it up, to stop as he approached it, and one even tried to take it away from him before he discharged the firearm.

Once he decided to answer and open the door at 5 am, then it was a matter of following protocol and complying with LEO orders. He was actually lucky he was not shot upon answering the door at 5 am with a gun in his hand. I give the LEO's credit for not shooting him when he opened the door and not shooting him the second he picked up that firearm off the floor IF those are indeed the facts.

Have not read where the ERPO was not necessary and the sister in-law was actually lying. Is there something out there to show that?

Mister Willis could have appeared in Court within what, 3 days, and gotten all his firearms back IF he could prove he was not a threat to himself or others. Him reaching for a firearm while two Anne Arundel County officers stood by him makes me wonder if he was not actually a threat to himself and/or others. Who here would actually reach for that firearm with two officers standing right there? Even if I were stupid enough to reach for it and the officers yelled STOP or DROP IT, I think I could process that command and no matter how much I liked the finish on my handgun, I would have dropped it immediately or stopped immediately. Not complying with LEO orders is a sure way to die.

Occam · Apr 22, 2019

fabsroman said:
Have not read where the ERPO was not necessary and the sister in-law was actually lying. Is there something out there to show that?

Media interviews immediately after had other family members saying it was about an argument and that he (the late Mr. Willis) wouldn't have hurt a fly, and was merely opinionated in ways his sister didn't like, etc. It did indeed sound like a grudge/spite ERPO.

somd_mustangs · Apr 22, 2019

fabsroman said:
<random gun owner here> could have appeared in Court within what, 3 days, and gotten all his firearms back IF he could prove he was not a threat to himself or others.

I don't usually comment in this kind of thread, but this is the attitude/statement that really chaps my ass.
"Hey what's the big deal, you can just get your guns back if they get confiscated and you can prove you're not a threat"
(two parts, it's heinous that they got taken in the first place, and then you're forced to prove you're innocent, not the state forced to prove you're guilty).

F that. As BobA and others have stated some folks have large, very valuable and/or fragile collections that in all likelihood would be significantly degraded by handling and processing. Regardless of the hollow promises that they'd be handled carefully and stored properly, there's a 3% chance they won't be damaged. And less than 3% you'd get everything back quickly and smoothly (especially if it's a large ~~arsenal~~ collection). Kiss your ammo good bye as well.

There's nothing defensible in this mess.

PJDiesel · Apr 22, 2019

mac1_131 said:
Who?

Who what?

If you hadn't heard, the poking, prodding and general passive/aggressive BS around here has been coming to an end recently. If you've got a problem with a particular post, click the little "!" sign down bottom there and report it.

Aside from that, the community as a whole would be better off working to come together rather than dumping on one another for sport. :thumbsup:

rseymorejr · Apr 22, 2019

fabsroman said:
Mister Willis could have appeared in Court within what, 3 days, and gotten all his firearms back IF he could prove he was not a threat to himself or others.

How do you PROVE that you are not a threat?

Some Guy · Apr 22, 2019

rseymorejr said:
How do you PROVE that you are not a threat?

This. Proving a negative is inherently difficult. That's why our justice system is predicated on presumption of innocence.

fabsroman · Apr 22, 2019

somd_mustangs said:
I don't usually comment in this kind of thread, but this is the attitude/statement that really chaps my ass.
"Hey what's the big deal, you can just get your guns back if they get confiscated and you can prove you're not a threat"
(two parts, it's heinous that they got taken in the first place, and then you're forced to prove you're innocent, not the state forced to prove you're guilty).

F that. As BobA and others have stated some folks have large, very valuable and/or fragile collections that in all likelihood would be significantly degraded by handling and processing. Regardless of the hollow promises that they'd be handled carefully and stored properly, there's a 3% chance they won't be damaged. And less than 3% you'd get everything back quickly and smoothly (especially if it's a large ~~arsenal~~ collection). Kiss your ammo good bye as well.

There's nothing defensible in this mess.

Now we are going all over the place on this. Next, we are going to take this on another tangent about whether this is unconstitutional or not.

Somebody brought up innocent Mr. Willis ending up dead. Well, anybody can be "innocent", even in a vehicle. Philando Castille comes to mind there. Produce a firearm at the door in front of a couple of officers, or reach for a firearm in front of a couple of officers, and the "innocence" goes away at that point. What were two officers supposed to do when Mr. Willis reached for the firearm on the floor? What were they supposed to do when one officer was trying to get it out of his hand and Mr. Willis discharged a round?

Fine, let's assume that the ERPO was doubtful for Mr. Willis. It isn't the ERPO that got Mr. Willis' killed, but his actions while standing in front of two LEOs. What if an LEO pulls me over because the vehicle I am driving is registered to somebody that has a suspended driver's license, but that somebody is not me and I am using the vehicle with the owner's permission? I am certainly "innocent" of any crime, but how would the LEO greet me if I emerge from the vehicle with a firearm in hand? "Innocent" me would end up being shot at the very least, and possibly shot to death.

Is this thread about the Constitutionality of the law, or is it about how law enforcement is going to enforce it and what to expect when an LEO is knocking on the door to execute the ERPO?

And as far as collections are concerned, mine is not worth my life. So, if an LEO shows up at my door and I answer the door, I am going to comply. The firearms can be replaced. My life, not so much.

Others will have to decide what they are going to do IF an ERPO is executed against them.

How many people on this board have had an ERPO executed against them in the past year? Would be great to hear from some people with first hand experiences.

ironpony · Apr 22, 2019

Was all of this in the community meeting?

Erpo or no erpo Willis is now guilty, I understand but don’t like to guess. “Would never hurt anyone” and did not, can’t be any clearer. Putting my safe on a timer so it does not open unless during normal business hours, to be safe.

Would Frost allow “recovered” pre-ban firearms to be “transferred” back? Sorry, that’s a joke.

HammerII · Apr 22, 2019

Living this very nightmare right now

whistlersmother · Apr 22, 2019

Sorry to hear that. May I recommend no further details until it's all sorted out.

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