The final SB 281: A detailed summary for non-lawyers

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  • Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,318
    What constitutes a "purchase order"? I've got a LaRue OBR on order, can quote an order number - but the delivery time on those is about one year. I know that LaRue is making a point of shipping lowers out, getting them papered to the purchasers, then having the buyers ship them back for completion, but have no idea if this is going to come off in time.
     

    madness3120

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 4, 2012
    840
    Great info, but still unsure about PBJ's. I've followed all the links, read and re-read each one.

    If I have a one year unsupervised PBJ from 24 years ago related to a violation of a protective order..............

    Someone gonna come a knocking? Do I need to get it Expunged? Am I done in this state and have to move before 1 October?

    Why wouldnt you want to get it expunged? You fill out like 2 papers, pay a fee and takes about 90days, nothing diffcult at all.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    What constitutes a "purchase order"? I've got a LaRue OBR on order, can quote an order number - but the delivery time on those is about one year.

    We'll see what kind of regulations the State Police write, but it sounds like a purchase order to me, and there is no deadline for delivery in the bill.
     

    eruby

    Confederate Jew
    MDS Supporter
    What constitutes a "purchase order"? I've got a LaRue OBR on order, can quote an order number - but the delivery time on those is about one year. I know that LaRue is making a point of shipping lowers out, getting them papered to the purchasers, then having the buyers ship them back for completion, but have no idea if this is going to come off in time.
    Have you already paid for it, or put enough of a deposit down that they won't rescind the order or raise the price?

    IANAL but I'd think that would suffice.
     

    chetwyman

    Member
    Mar 22, 2013
    39
    there was also a version of the bill that stated that dealers could not hold banned weapons after October 1. Was that changed as well so that dealers can hold banned weapons during the "7 day" waiting period if purchased before October 1?
     

    madness3120

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 4, 2012
    840
    Atleast we got grandfathering & no need to register current firearms so they didn't 100% **** us, just like 98.9% LOL
     

    bohman

    Active Member
    May 20, 2012
    775
    St. Mary's
    My understanding is that if it is built into the gun and not easily removed, it is fixed. If you can snap it out for the loading of cartridges, it is detachable. I suppose these terms will be further defined in the MSP regulations.

    Ok, that's what I thought but like I said, noob here. :wave:

    As for paragraph 10 - It makes it obvious that mags with more than 10 rounds cannot be bought or sold, even if that type is standard to the gun, but it's not so obvious whether you can by the gun itself with that >10 capacity. For instance, if I want to buy a Glock that comes with a 15 round mag*, does this mean I can't do that in MD? The language isn't perfectly clear, at least not to me.


    *I have no idea what capacity is standard for a Glock, just saying 15 for conversational purposes.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    there was also a version of the bill that stated that dealers could not hold banned weapons after October 1. Was that changed as well so that dealers can hold banned weapons during the "7 day" waiting period if purchased before October 1?

    The purchase-order exception in the bill applies to banned weapons, and logically should be read to apply to the entire process. For handguns, the handgun qualification license requirements would start October 1, and there is no exception in the bill for orders placed before October 1.
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    Ok, that's what I thought but like I said, noob here. :wave:

    As for paragraph 10 - It makes it obvious that mags with more than 10 rounds cannot be bought or sold, even if that type is standard to the gun, but it's not so obvious whether you can by the gun itself with that >10 capacity. For instance, if I want to buy a Glock that comes with a 15 round mag*, does this mean I can't do that in MD? The language isn't perfectly clear, at least not to me.*I have no idea what capacity is standard for a Glock, just saying 15 for conversational purposes.

    You would not be able to lawfully transfer a handgun with a 10-plus magazine in Maryland, whether it comes with a new gun or an old gun, or is all alone by itself. (Exceptions for law enforcement, military, etc.) To be sold in Maryland, new handguns would have to be sold with magazines manufactured or suitably modified to comply with the limitation. This is the same way that the existing ban on 20-plus magazines has worked.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    The problem with purchase orders is that there's nothing in the bill that would seem to allow an FFL to obtain the gun post-October 1. IMHO, it seems more designed to protect people with guns on layaway than anything else. I originally thought an FFL07/SOT might be able to dodge that with their own exemptions, but I don't necessarily see anything that would apply.
     

    ash153

    Member
    Mar 26, 2013
    5
    Fruitland, MD
    Thank you for the excellent summary! I have two questions:

    1. Does it look like I can transport a banned weapon out of state for 3 gun after Oct. 1, then return home with it after the match? I know it says you can transport it, but earlier in the bill it said you cannot transport it into the state. I was confused by that.

    2. If I choose to sell a banned weapon after Oct. 1, will I be able to sell it to someone in another state, say through Gunbroker.com (maybe with the aid of an FFL here)?
     

    ShallNotInfringe

    Lil Firecracker
    Feb 17, 2013
    8,554
    So, should we make up a folder for keeping in our range bags that include the updated law and the notarized pictures/purchase orders?
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    The problem with purchase orders is that there's nothing in the bill that would seem to allow an FFL to obtain the gun post-October 1. IMHO, it seems more designed to protect people with guns on layaway than anything else. I originally thought an FFL07/SOT might be able to dodge that with their own exemptions, but I don't necessarily see anything that would apply.

    That is a very interesting point that is worthy of further scrutiny.
     

    gsrcrxsi

    Active Member
    Jan 15, 2012
    176
    Baltimore, MD
    An entire thread should probably be devoted to this subject, which received virtually no attention during the public debates in the legislature, either in committees or on the House and Senate floor. With respect to domestic-partner protective orders issued by Maryland courts, judges are already empowered by current law to remove firearms when issuing an ex parte temporary order, and firearms removal is mandatory upon issuance of a long-term order. An ex parte order is one issued without advance notice to the targeted person, and therefore, without any opportunity to contest the order or present a defense. A long-term order can be issued only after an opportunity for the targeted person to context it at an adversarial hearing.

    The bill contains a new provision that imposes a complete and instant firearms disqualification when a "protective" order is issued by an out-of-state court. By my reading, because the bill ties this new provision into a definition already found in the Maryland code that is extremely expansive, it would apply to all out-of-state restraining orders, no matter who seeks them, including those issued ex parte -- which, again, means without advance notice to the targeted party -- that merely prohibit communication or contact with an annoyed person. Such orders may be sought and obtained easily in many jurisdictions, sometimes by persons who have motives that are malicious, delusional, or even criminal.

    A prominent and intelligent legislator told me she thought the bill provision did not mean what I think, and that it would be limited to out-of-state domestic-partner protective orders. I do not see language in the bill to support her interpretation, but I would welcome some impartial expert on family law telling me that she was right.

    Under either her interpretation or mine, the bill does not apply to temporary ex parte "peace orders" issued by Maryland magistrates or courts, which can be sought by anybody and are issued essentially on request.

    thank you for your response. although i dont really understand why this is targeting out of state protective orders. if someone is worried about their safety, wouldnt someone in-state be more of a "threat" if due to nothing else other than increased proximity?

    i propose a hypothetical.

    guy and girl date. are NOT married, or otherwise legally bound.
    things go sour, and one of them decides they want a protective order against the other
    does the targetted person then lose all of their firearms rights?

    for reference, how does this scenario CURRENTLY (Before SB281) affect firearms rights?
     

    ddeanjohnson

    autodidact
    Aug 21, 2010
    801
    Thank you for the excellent summary! I have two questions:

    1. Does it look like I can transport a banned weapon out of state for 3 gun after Oct. 1, then return home with it after the match? I know it says you can transport it, but earlier in the bill it said you cannot transport it into the state. I was confused by that.

    2. If I choose to sell a banned weapon after Oct. 1, will I be able to sell it to someone in another state, say through Gunbroker.com (maybe with the aid of an FFL here)?

    Yes, if it is your grandfathered "assault" weapon you can transport it back and forth, but don't lend it to somebody else.

    Yes, you can sell it to an out-of-date FFL, or to a private individual in another state (where it is legal) through the usual FFL transfer procedure. (In fact, they are pretty much the only people you can sell it to, other than law enforcement. A Maryland FFL is allowed to possess the firearm for purposes of a transfer to a licensed dealer in another state, whether for sale to the dealer or to a private individual through the dealer in the other state. But I am not sure that you'd actually need a Maryland FFL to be part of the process -- it may be optional.
     
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