Small Cannon advise

CSHS · Jun 27, 2017

My cousin just bought a small cannon. Bore is .750. No instructions. His plan is to shoot .690 balls using about 60 grains FFFg.

I'd like any advise the group has on loading before we shoot it.

I'll try to get a picture from him and post that.
Thanks.

WeaponsCollector · Jun 27, 2017

Since many/most cannons are handmade it's hard to say what a safe load is for them so I can't suggest that but I do believe FFg might be a little safer to use than FFFg.

Silverlode · Jun 27, 2017

What is the tube constructed of? Brass, iron? You likely shouldn't fire an unknown iron cannon unless it clearly has a steel liner, preferably seamless. Also, firing a blank charge for report is much safer than firing a ball.
This is the best source I have found for BP cannon info.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/88-blackpowder-mortar-cannon-sponsored-seacoast-artillery.html

Blacksmith101 · Jun 27, 2017

Use a long fuse, to allow time to get far away, and a proof testing load. Do some googling to figure what proof load you need, here is one proof test of a 70 caliber "Hand Gonne" shown on page 7.
http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/forging.pdf

Even after proofing any hidden flaws could lead to failure and an exploding barrel at any time. Liability insurance is recommended.

ken792 · Jun 27, 2017

Does it have any markings? I believe the Spanish made ones are proofed.

CSHS · Jun 27, 2017

Here's a picture. Think it was made by some guy in Ohio.

iH8DemLibz · Jun 27, 2017

Looks something someone knocked out in a machine shop.

You have no idea what that barrel material is.

Personally, I would never load and fire that cannon with powder and ball.

Salutes only.

Doco Overboard · Jun 27, 2017

Whats the breech end Look like? I would be a little leery of that one but would still double load two round balls and about 40 gr of FF. Just make sure you use cannon fuse and a long stick with a match on it from behind a block wall. If the touch hole is less than one caliber from the breech I wouldn't lite it off at all unless it was fourth of July. No really, I would just consider it a signal cannon and carefully enjoy it on the same day or plug the barrel with lead and just use it as a conversation piece.

ras_oscar · Jun 28, 2017

Has it been fired before or will you be the first to load powder into it? I'd be leary of any product them maker refused to test.

iH8DemLibz · Jun 28, 2017

Doesn't even look like it has a breech end.

Looks like it's a tube with the same outside dimension fore and aft.

Could be the camera/optical illusion.

PS: What is the outside diameter at the fuse end?

dist1646 · Jun 28, 2017

iH8DemLibz said:
Looks something someone knocked out in a machine shop.

You have no idea what that barrel material is.

Personally, I would never load and fire that cannon with powder and ball.

Salutes only.

+1

OP, Poor construction and unknown quality of the metal would make it a salute only toy. I also question the method used to attach the barrel to the carriage as it could prove to be very weak in that area. Based on the photo, there does seem to be a slight taper in the barrel from where the trunions would normally be. There also appear to be a lot of imperfections in the surface of the barrel where it is machined, which would indicate to me that those imperfections are from a poor casting of the metal prior to machining. Even as a salute piece, I would test from a safe distance behind a tree.

j_h_smith · Jun 28, 2017

I own a few small cannons. I would like to see more of that cannon before I'd shoot anything out of it. Even as a salute cannon, it can still be unsafe. Maybe not dangerous, but unsafe. Can you determine what metal the barrel is made from? The connection to the carriage looks cheap (and maybe unsafe too).

I'm sorry, but that cannon looks like a toy and as such, I would recommend he use it for decorations only. Are you sure the fuse hole actually goes into the chamber? I have seen cannons that look like they will fire, but the fuse hole doesn't meet the chamber/bore.

I would NEVER, EVER fire a projectile from that cannon.

YMMV

CSHS · Jun 28, 2017

OD at muzzle 1.5" at breech 1.9". No trunions, welded directly to the carriage. Fuse hole 1.8" from breech. Some surface rust.

iH8DemLibz · Jun 28, 2017

CSHS said:
OD at muzzle 1.5" at breech 1.9". No trunions, welded directly to the carriage. Fuse hole 1.8" from breech. Some surface rust.

That picture is deceiving. And those number sound pretty good actually.

I measured my .69 caliber musket and the breech is 1.3 OD. That's a .305 wall thickness. Or 44% of the bore.

Your wall thickness is .575. Or 77% of the bore. The walls and breech are more than sufficient. Your up around mortar dimensions/ratios.

I think I'm changing my mind about shooting it. My only reserve at this point would be the quality of the steel. I would find a safe place to test it and proof that barrel. I'll let you research how to do that. Others may feel comfortable chiming in on it.

CSHS · Jun 29, 2017

Thanks to everyone for the insight. Plan is for a long fuse, run, hide behind tree.

I'll post results and pics.

j_h_smith · Jun 29, 2017

CSHS said:
Thanks to everyone for the insight. Plan is for a long fuse, run, hide behind tree.

I'll post results and pics.

Keep a very close eye on that weld that holds the barrel to the carriage.

Be careful!

Doco Overboard · Jun 29, 2017

My kid made a miniature cannon for a HS shop project. He said use HRC 30 steel. Make sure the breech is made from drilling the tube material and not by welding it shut or a combination of thread/ welding. He proofed it (Darwin proof house, DPH ) with two 370 Maxi balls and 30 grain of Pyrodex P. He shot it a few times and then the novelty wore off. Its around here somewhere.

iH8DemLibz · Jun 29, 2017

Was thinking about something regarding the breech dimension. You mentioned the fuse hole was 1.8 from the back end of the barrel. But that's not necessarily the breech thickness.

Just for shites and giggles/better safe than sorry, measure the overall length of the barrel. Then stick a tape measure down the bore and record the depth of the bore. Then subtract the depth of the bore from the overall length. That will give you the breech wall thickness.

Looking forward to pics when you light that sucker up.

CSHS · Jul 6, 2017

Follow-up. He shot it over the 4th weekend with no problems, Started at 30 grains FFFg worked up to a max of 60 grains. .69 ball with patch. We shot out over a lake so we could range it. 60 grains went out just over 300 yards. Didn't determine the elevation, next time.

What kind of wadding/packing do you use for "signal cannon" mode. When we shot powder-only, it just kind of fizzled.

Thanks again for all the input.

j_h_smith · Jul 6, 2017

I use toilet paper. Packs well and burns very easily.

Small Cannon advise

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