The final SB 281: A detailed summary for non-lawyers

ddeanjohnson · Apr 5, 2013

Gunbroker

DimaK said:
So after 10/1/13 I want sell my Glock with a 17 rd mag on gunbroker to anyone out of state. Will that still be possible or will it have to be sold w/o a mag?

I'd like to hear the opinions of some lawyers on this one. It seems to me it would be okay as long as you stipulate that you won't sell to residents of Maryland, or other states with comparable restrictions.

virtus · Apr 5, 2013

swinokur said:
Not that MD gives a rats a$$, think of the lost sales taxes by shooters buying standard capacity mags out of state.

More nit wittery from the MD GA.

They're already coming up with all kinds of new ways to tax the ever-loving shit out of us to make up for lost revenue, I'm sure :sad20:

swinokur · Apr 5, 2013

3. A centerfire rifle will be a banned "copycat" if it meets any one of these three tests:
(1) Has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds; or
(2) has an overall length of less than 29 inches; or
(3) has two of the following attributes: (i) folding stock, (ii) grenade or flare launcher, or (iii) flash suppressor.

Are a folding stock and a collapsible stock treated the same way for purposes of this law?

virtus · Apr 5, 2013

swinokur said:
Are a folding stock and a collapsible stock treated the same way for purposes of this law?

A previous version of the bill listed folding stocks and collapsible stocks separately. This leads me to believe they are different items under this bill.

KL1 · Apr 5, 2013

What constitutes possession? The strictest interpretation is that the person in physical control of something is in "possession" of that thing. So does this mean if I'm at the range, I can't let anyone else shoot my banned assault long gun, because in order for them to shoot it, they would have to "possess" it, which would be illegal? Can I leave my assault long gun with a gunsmith for repairs, or would they be illegally "possessing" a banned weapon that they did not legally possess before the ban? Common-sense would indicate the intent was "ownership", but that was not the word used. It seems like the word "possession" is a potential legal minefield.

erwos · Apr 5, 2013

rparke4 said:
A previous version of the bill listed folding stocks and collapsible stocks separately. This leads me to believe they are different items under this bill.

Correct.

ddeanjohnson · Apr 5, 2013

swinokur said:
Are a folding stock and a collapsible stock treated the same way for purposes of this law?

The bill contains definitions of "detachable magazine" and "flash suppressor," on page 11, but I see no definition of "folding stock." So you guess is as good as mine.

ddeanjohnson · Apr 5, 2013

rparke4 said:
A previous version of the bill listed folding stocks and collapsible stocks separately. This leads me to believe they are different items under this bill.

No, the earlier version said "a folding or telescoping stock," for both rifles and shotguns. The words "or telescoping" were stricken.

ddeanjohnson · Apr 5, 2013

KL1 said:
What constitutes possession? The strictest interpretation is that the person in physical control of something is in "possession" of that thing. So does this mean if I'm at the range, I can't let anyone else shoot my banned assault long gun, because in order for them to shoot it, they would have to "possess" it, which would be illegal? Can I leave my assault long gun with a gunsmith for repairs, or would they be illegally "possessing" a banned weapon that they did not legally possess before the ban? Common-sense would indicate the intent was "ownership", but that was not the word used. It seems like the word "possession" is a potential legal minefield.

I don't know exactly, but certainly "possession" is much broader than ownership. That's why current law has language to allow temporary possession of a handgun by a minor under certain circumstances. (See page 39.) I believe that "possession" is what they had in mind.

Jim46 · Apr 5, 2013

Doesn't number 3 refer to semi-auto centerfire rifles and not lever or bolt actions?

madness3120 · Apr 5, 2013

" requires law-abiding citizens, prior to purchasing a handgun to be fingerprinted at state police headquarters, have a background check, take four hours of classroom instruction, pass an undefined test at a gun range, and obtain a gun license, and also a 50$ fee associated with new registration"

Is this EVERY time you buy a gun you have to do this???

gmkoh · Apr 5, 2013

Banned handguns

If I read this correctly, a handgun will be banned if it has a FIXED magazine greater than 10 rounds.

Any examples of a handgun with a fixed magazine that large?

Is a revolver cylinder considered a "fixed" magazine?

Is a box mag that requires a tool to drop (eg- a calif legal release devise that requires a bullet tip or some other small pointed tool to activate) considered a fixed mag?

gmkoh · Apr 5, 2013

madness3120 said:
" requires law-abiding citizens, prior to purchasing a handgun to be fingerprinted at state police headquarters, have a background check, take four hours of classroom instruction, pass an undefined test at a gun range, and obtain a gun license, and also a 50$ fee associated with new registration"

Is this EVERY time you buy a gun you have to do this???

As I understand it, no. The "license" will be good for X years (I think 5 but haven't seen the bill). After 5 years, IF you want to buy another hand gun, yes, you have to go through it again. If you buy a second HG in that initial eriod, you will need a new Background check, but not a new license.

AliasNeo07 · Apr 5, 2013

swinokur said:
Are a folding stock and a collapsible stock treated the same way for purposes of this law?

This. And is a flash suppressor treated the same as a muzzle brake. If not. ..wow.

Smagel · Apr 5, 2013

zoostation said:
Thanks for doing this for the board Dean. it looks like it took a lot of work.

ddeanjohnson · Apr 5, 2013

Jim46 said:
Doesn't number 3 refer to semi-auto centerfire rifles. . .?

Yes, that was a typo -- good catch. I've corrected it. Only a semiauto can be a so-called "copycat."

erwos · Apr 5, 2013

AliasNeo07 said:
This. And is a flash suppressor treated the same as a muzzle brake. If not. ..wow.

For the final ****ing time:
1. Flash hiders reduce flash, as is defined right in the bill. Muzzle brakes and comps don't. If you have a combo brake/hider or comp/hider, it's a flash hider under the law. If it's just a brake or comp, it's not. Use your own judgement and common sense.
2. Collapsing stocks are not the same as folding stocks. The legislative intent was crystal clear.

mweiler48 · Apr 5, 2013

This may be a stupid question, and I'm sorry if so, but is there anyplace where the term "copy" in regards to the now pending "banned" list is defined? For instance, a "Bushmaster semi automatic" would be unnecessary if "AR-15 and all copies regardless of manufacturer" covered, say, an XM-15. The reason I ask is that if you take, for example, Windham's Varmint rifle with a heavy barrel and no flash or comp with a skeletonized stock, you'd actually have zero of the characteristics.

Also, anyone know if a comp is considered the same as a flash suppressor? They do completely different things, the law is written for "directing flash", but a comp isn't for flash.

mweiler48 · Apr 5, 2013

AliasNeo07 said:
This. And is a flash suppressor treated the same as a muzzle brake. If not. ..wow.

Didn't see this before I posted the same question. On stocks, they specifically crossed out "telescoping", so obviously folding is out but collapsible may be ok.

ddeanjohnson · Apr 5, 2013

madness3120 said:
" requires law-abiding citizens, prior to purchasing a handgun to be fingerprinted at state police headquarters, have a background check, take four hours of classroom instruction, pass an undefined test at a gun range, and obtain a gun license, and also a 50$ fee associated with new registration"

Is this EVERY time you buy a gun you have to do this???

No. Once you have the "handgun qualification license," it is good for 10 years. Upon renewal, repetition of the fingerprinting, background check, and training is not required. (SB 281, enrolled bill, page 32.)

The final SB 281: A detailed summary for non-lawyers

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