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Old December 7th, 2018, 03:20 PM #121
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You were the one using the ozonics scent control machine, right? I can completely understand that and its use. It is just way more than I would ever pay for that stuff. Are you still using that?
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Old December 7th, 2018, 05:35 PM #122
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You were the one using the ozonics scent control machine, right? I can completely understand that and its use. It is just way more than I would ever pay for that stuff. Are you still using that?
Oh hell yes! Prices have come down some on the HR-200 if you look around for deals. That's the model I use. I bought the Scent Crusher tote this year to keep my clothing in. It has an ozone generator that pumps ozone into the tote. It works on a timer. It's great for maintaining your clothing in a scent free state. It has an AC and a DC plug so it works just about anywhere.

Back to the Ozonics, think of it this way. You never have to worry about the wind being 'right' for the stand you want to hunt. I don't know how many times I've had to not hunt a stand because the wind wasn't right. There were stands I couldn't hunt all season, good stands, because the wind was never right. That's no longer a problem. Deer will occasionally get a nose full of ozone if they are real close and will sometimes react to it. They usually settle right down though. My feelings on scent and deer are, I want to be invisible to a deer's nose. I never use attractants. I want to hunt what is as close to an unstressed deer as possible. The Ozonics gets me there.

One last thing. I've been hunting deer for so long, I have just about everything I need when the season rolls around. My yearly cash layout is fairly low. To drop $300 on an item every few years is a drop in the bucket compared to when I was young and acquiring all the necessities I "needed". This will be my forth year on this appliance. I may ship it back to them on the off season and have it reconditioned. Ozone generators don't last forever. Dust is a big foe. If you've ever owned a modern spa, you know they come with an ozonator. There's a chip you have to replace every few years. Same kind of thing here.
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Old December 8th, 2018, 03:35 AM #123
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Oh well...

what's that saying?

"Ignorance is bliss" or something like that...

must be true.
Really? Name calling? You know most people here at MDS find that ad hominem attacks say more about the speaker than the recipient. It's much better to make your points with well-reasoned logical arguments than to resort to something so base.

Besides true ignorance isn't lack of any particular point of knowledge; none of us knows everything. Instead true ignorance is best described as the inability or unwillingness to question, to learn, and to grow.

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You've all read my experiences and final thoughts on the hecs suit. That said, I can't recall a thread where there was more inexperienced naysaying in it. It's as if most people don't want it to work. I don't mean that to be inflammatory. Just curious.

I will say to Striper69, pictures say a thousand words. Was I wearing my HECS suit when I shot my buck this year? Yes. Do I honestly think it helped. No. Not in this case. I bought the suit to prove whether it was for real or a hoax. My own nonscientific experiment. I found no definite evidence that it worked.

YMMV
Outrider,

There are few hunters at MDS for whom I have greater respect than you. I've read your posts, learned greatly from them, and have tried to apply them in my own life. I'm glad you're kind enough to share your vast experiences with others, including me. I'm a better hunter for it. Thank you.

However, this is a question primarily about science, not about hunting. And with all due respect, you misunderstood the motivations of the skeptics in this thread. It isn't that we don't want it to work. How great would it be if it did? No, it's just that we don't see any practical way that it can, and we very much dislike snake oil salesman. Many of us believe this company likely falls into that category. Why do I say that?

Because the EMF humans emit (0.00001 Gauss) is so weak that it is 5,000 to 65,000 times weaker than what migratory birds, fish, and whatever other animals are used to seeing and using for basic navigation. In fact 0.00001 Gauss is so weak that you'd need a superconducting quantum interference device (SQUID) inside an anechoic chamber to detect it. We're talking quantum sensor level devices, most effectively at 4 degrees Kelvin (-452 Fahrenheit) He4. For those of us who have worked with or around anechoic chambers and cryogenic equipment, it strains scientific credibility to believe that deer are capable of detecting quantum-level EMF signals.

We do know that deer have excellent eyes, much better ears than we have, and much more sensitive noses. That's why all the great advice you and other hunters give about minimizing motion, taking advantage of concealment, eliminating or mitigating scent, understanding and taking advantage of the prevailing wind direction and the topography of the surrounding terrain, is spot on.

EMF? Sorry, but the burden of proof rests squarely with this company, and they've got 4 to 5 orders of magnitude to even begin to demonstrate they're selling anything but a placebo.
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Old December 8th, 2018, 08:52 AM #124
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Because the EMF humans emit (0.00001 Gauss) is so weak that it is 5,000 to 65,000 times weaker than what migratory birds, fish, and whatever other animals are used to seeing and using for basic navigation. In fact 0.00001 Gauss is so weak that you'd need a superconducting quantum interference device (SQUID) inside an anechoic chamber to detect it. We're talking quantum sensor level devices, most effectively at 4 degrees Kelvin (-452 Fahrenheit) He4. For those of us who have worked with or around anechoic chambers and cryogenic equipment, it strains scientific credibility to believe that deer are capable of detecting quantum-level EMF signals.
Exactly this. And as mentioned before, if there was anything to this, it's an area that would already be heavily scrutinized for both detection and evasion by our military and others. It's not. There's no there, there. But there is always a market made up of those who want to at least feel that they're giving themselves more of an edge on those rare occasions they can put themselves in the same place as a deer, and have some money to spend. The beauty of selling placebos like this to folks in that market is that there are always FAR too many variables in play out in the field on a real hunt to ever be able to show which single factor won or lost that venison tenderloin.

The very nature of the scenario they're selling to precludes real, reproducible, double-blind testing. So all we can do is look to other ways to study the strength and detectibility of human EM emissions, and that's already been done in other venues. The results say that this product's sales claims are fanciful, not functional. But if the product also happens to be comfortable, visually disruptive, quiet, and doesn't make the scenting situation worse, then personal results in the field are going to produce enough subjective "I don't think that doe sensed my EM field!" experiences now that that notion has been planted in enough hunters' heads.

My main interest here is in the much wider area of critical thinking and literacy with the scientific method. I would never risk the nothing-but-downsides social friction here of countering another member's aspirations on this front if I weren't bugged by what I see as some kinda shameless snake oil salesmanship on the manufacturer's part. Gets under my skin, because it's part of a much broader pattern, and I like to fight the good fight in the name of science and reason.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 11:28 AM #125
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Outrider, Rogers has Ozonics on sale for $300, but its still too expensive for my blood.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 02:42 PM #126
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Outrider, Rogers has Ozonics on sale for $300, but its still too expensive for my blood.
Thanks Rob. Yeah, I saw that the other day.

I tell people, if you own just about everything you need for deer hunting, this is something to think about. It's about the price of a good cold weather suit these days.I can pretty much hunt a full season without spending a dime, so to me, dropping $300 isn't that big of a deal. Hell, I've had bigger one night bar tabs.

Does anyone REALLY need one? No. It's just another gadget, but it does work as advertised. My biggest question is, will deer begin to relate the scent of ozone to danger? Especially in the case of does. Time will tell.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 02:55 PM #127
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A little reading on that and its saying breathing it is bad for you.
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Old December 13th, 2018, 07:13 PM #128
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A little reading on that and its saying breathing it is bad for you.
Yes. It will give you a sore throat after a couple days of breathing it all day. The proper method for using these products is to point the generator down wind of your position. That, in most cases, will keep you from breathing ozone directly. Also, you want the machine to be high enough above you that if "directly down wind" is in line with you, it is blowing over your head and not directly on you. You will get a whiff of it from time to time. That should be the extent of your direct exposure.

I.feel we should move over to the "Ozonics" thread I started several years ago so that others don't miss information by avoiding the HECS thread.

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=166747
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Old Yesterday, 09:34 AM #129
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Really? Name calling? You know most people here at MDS find that ad hominem attacks say more about the speaker than the recipient. It's much better to make your points with well-reasoned logical arguments than to resort to something so base.

Besides true ignorance isn't lack of any particular point of knowledge; none of us knows everything. Instead true ignorance is best described as the inability or unwillingness to question, to learn, and to grow.
Well said.
Quote:



Outrider,

There are few hunters at MDS for whom I have greater respect than you. I've read your posts, learned greatly from them, and have tried to apply them in my own life. I'm glad you're kind enough to share your vast experiences with others, including me. I'm a better hunter for it. Thank you.

However, this is a question primarily about science, not about hunting. And with all due respect, you misunderstood the motivations of the skeptics in this thread. It isn't that we don't want it to work. How great would it be if it did? No, it's just that we don't see any practical way that it can, and we very much dislike snake oil salesman. Many of us believe this company likely falls into that category. Why do I say that?

Because the EMF humans emit (0.00001 Gauss) is so weak that it is 5,000 to 65,000 times weaker than what migratory birds, fish, and whatever other animals are used to seeing and using for basic navigation. In fact 0.00001 Gauss is so weak that you'd need a superconducting quantum interference device (SQUID) inside an anechoic chamber to detect it. We're talking quantum sensor level devices, most effectively at 4 degrees Kelvin (-452 Fahrenheit) He4. For those of us who have worked with or around anechoic chambers and cryogenic equipment, it strains scientific credibility to believe that deer are capable of detecting quantum-level EMF signals.

We do know that deer have excellent eyes, much better ears than we have, and much more sensitive noses. That's why all the great advice you and other hunters give about minimizing motion, taking advantage of concealment, eliminating or mitigating scent, understanding and taking advantage of the prevailing wind direction and the topography of the surrounding terrain, is spot on.

EMF? Sorry, but the burden of proof rests squarely with this company, and they've got 4 to 5 orders of magnitude to even begin to demonstrate they're selling anything but a placebo.
Emphasis mine...

How dare you interject scientific fact into what should be, and has been up until now, an entirely subjective and superstitious discussion based on anecdotal evidence?

Do you not realize the potential impact of horrifically undermining our mythical beliefs and misinterpretation of unrelated observations, and now, of all times. I cannot believe what I am reading. I have my beliefs, based on my interpretation of what seem to be facts, and it is stressing me out to try to reconcile your scientific gibberish with the things I really want to believe. Thanks a lot....

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Old Yesterday, 10:38 AM #130
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Outrider, Rogers has Ozonics on sale for $300, but its still too expensive for my blood.
Go on Amazon. Search ozone machines.. I got one this summer for my cars ..

Enerzen Commercial Ozone Generator 6,000mg Industrial O3 Air Purifier Deodorizer Sterilizer (6,000mg - Black) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JAP7388..._V.7eCbVK4V20J


Edit: for home use/clothing.. not portable ones
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