LS3Stig
Hey Jack
http://www.guns.com/2016/09/26/smit...9fe&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook
Thought you guys would find this interesting.
Thought you guys would find this interesting.
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- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Not a huge surprise to hear it got cut. I love my M&P's, but they do have a few things that put them at a disadvantage.
- Horrible trigger out of the box. (Easily rectified though, but not a way to get a leg up in a head to head comp with other makers.)
- Relatively short-lived recoil spring, IIRC the replacement schedule is right around 3500 rounds.
- The MIM slide release has been known to break. (I just had to replace mine, but well beyond 10k rounds thru the gun.)
- Horrible trigger out of the box. (Easily rectified though, but not a way to get a leg up in a head to head comp with other makers.)
- Relatively short-lived recoil spring, IIRC the replacement schedule is right around 3500 rounds.
- The MIM slide release has been known to break. (I just had to replace mine, but well beyond 10k rounds thru the gun.)
That's got to be quite a poke in the eye for them. They are out but the Italians, Belgians, Germans, and Austrians are still in. Not to mention they had even partnered with General Dynamics to get it done.
And it looks like the army is going to insist on continuing to use the 9mm round. This for a war application that largely uses FMJ ammo. I almost wonder why they are bothering.
And it looks like the army is going to insist on continuing to use the 9mm round. This for a war application that largely uses FMJ ammo. I almost wonder why they are bothering.
- Aug 17, 2011
- 26,177
Is it really any surprise, when American corporate rules, these days, are all about cut/slash/save money while placing more importance on stock performance?
Eventually, you end up getting out of it what you put into it -- an inferior product that doesn't compete, because too many corners were cut to save money.
Eventually, you end up getting out of it what you put into it -- an inferior product that doesn't compete, because too many corners were cut to save money.
Believe me, that's a worldwide problem for industry in general, except it seems in Asia, which should be scary to American business.
This isn't a comment on Smith at all because I don't know about their management practices. But as a general statement, western manufacturing is largely being crippled by a culture that looks for short term stock gains, and fails to play the long game. Why? Because we don't retain long term strategic managers. All the upper execs want to come in, get great results and subsequent bonuses for a few years at most, then leave and move on to the next corporation. A Board of Directors is supposed to keep this from happening, but it seems like a lot of them are just in it for the short run as well.
Meanwhile you have CEO's and VP's in China sitting at the helms of large corporations for decades and planning how they are going to rule a market in ten years, instead of making big numbers this Fall.
5.56blaster
Ultimate Member
I carried the M9 for 25 years and 5 combat tours. I never had an issue with it and it works when needed. As far as 9mm vs 45 ACP who cares when your shooting FMJ and that's not going to change. 9mm kills people real good, been there, done it, didn't get a t-shirt.
Headknocker weeps.
Drives away in his '57 coupe.
Drives away in his '57 coupe.
Name Taken
Ultimate Member
Someone in marketing should have picked a new name.
Military and Police line that largely isn't used by either.
Military and Police line that largely isn't used by either.
yellowsled
Retired C&R Addict
Keep the M9!
jimbobborg
Oddball caliber fan
There are over 300 state and local agencies issuing an M&P.
Name Taken
Ultimate Member
There's over 100 police departments in MD alone...so yeah...it hasn't won a military contract and by and large most agencies don't issue it.
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,520
If they really cared about a good combo, they'd just go with gen4 g17s firing 115+p dpx loads and call it a day. Limiting our military to FMJ is retarded....especially when our LEOs use HPs.
BJS states that there are 12,000 local police agencies. This doesn't include sheriffs deparements.
The government is like one of those MDs posters asking for 9mm suggestions. They want Sig features and performance, Have a Highpoint budget, And always insist they won't consider Glocks.
The fact that the government is wasting money on testing 9mm pistols with 100 year old technology is stupid and a waste of money.
The fact that the government is wasting money on testing 9mm pistols with 100 year old technology is stupid and a waste of money.
jimbobborg
Oddball caliber fan
Aside from the fact that it's a historic title that S&W has used since the early 1900s, there are, in fact, 300+ Police agencies that issue S&W M&Ps. Hence, it's a perfectly acceptable name for this line.
Name Taken
Ultimate Member
300 of how many thousands?
It's not largely adopted that was my point.
Delete the police point if it makes you happy...where's the military part?
I laugh at the M&P not because it's an awful product but because it by and large didn't make a DENT in the police market and didn't get a military contract. I own 3 of them and like them. Even carried one for about 8 years.
If you can't see having 300 agencies nationwide when there is at least 100 agencies in MD as a FLOP then I can't help you.
5.56blaster
Ultimate Member
I have a friend at Md. DOC who repairs them on a daily basis.
5.56blaster
Ultimate Member
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