Detailed NFA Trust Information

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  • boricuamaximus

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 27, 2008
    6,237
    Question about funding.

    Let's say my Trust needs to be funded. Do I just put a $1.00 bill in an envelope and attach it to the other trust documents?

    Do I need to make an entry on Schedule A from me to the trust for 1.00 and enter the serial number of the dollar bill?
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    and it works? you've successfully sent it in and had items aprroved? i just want to make sure because there are alot of horror stories associated with trusts. i got a willmaker off of ebay but wasn't sure it would work. thanks:thumbsup:

    Just interested in any verifiable horror stories concerning Trusts. I hear them, yet am unable to verify a single one.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    Question about funding.

    Let's say my Trust needs to be funded. Do I just put a $1.00 bill in an envelope and attach it to the other trust documents?

    Do I need to make an entry on Schedule A from me to the trust for 1.00 and enter the serial number of the dollar bill?

    Who says it needs to be "funded"? We are heading down the path of paralysis through over-analysis.

    Seriously, you all over over-thinking this whole thing.

    Can't you just go to Lexis and look up the statutory requirements for a Trust - I mean the law is out there for free and it's not really that complicated.

    Just off the top of my head here fellas - the dealings I have had with the creation/management and evaluation of three legally valid Trusts, nary a single one was "funded." Where this idea came from, I really wonder.

    Just as an aside - if you have Trust property in a Trust, why in the world would you think you's have to send it to the ATF? Like if you had a car, or previously acquired NFA items, you wouldn't send that would you?

    This whole line of what-if reminds me of a 8 year old I know - no insult intended. I basically answer her what-ifs with: What if the moon crashes into the Earth as we sleep? We won't have to concern ourselves with an unending string of "what-ifs."

    This topic is NOT complicated. Create a Trust, have it notarized, send the thing (copy) and required paperwork to the ATF. Relax and wait. That's it!
     

    boricuamaximus

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 27, 2008
    6,237
    Who says it needs to be "funded"? We are heading down the path of paralysis through over-analysis.

    Seriously, you all over over-thinking this whole thing.

    Can't you just go to Lexis and look up the statutory requirements for a Trust - I mean the law is out there for free and it's not really that complicated.

    Just off the top of my head here fellas - the dealings I have had with the creation/management and evaluation of three legally valid Trusts, nary a single one was "funded." Where this idea came from, I really wonder.

    Just as an aside - if you have Trust property in a Trust, why in the world would you think you's have to send it to the ATF? Like if you had a car, or previously acquired NFA items, you wouldn't send that would you?

    This whole line of what-if reminds me of a 8 year old I know - no insult intended. I basically answer her what-ifs with: What if the moon crashes into the Earth as we sleep? We won't have to concern ourselves with an unending string of "what-ifs."

    This topic is NOT complicated. Create a Trust, have it notarized, send the thing (copy) and required paperwork to the ATF. Relax and wait. That's it!

    My lawyer told me that I needed to fund my trust. I am fairly ignorant on this and the Notary Public said that she does not know about firearm trust. The only trust she knows of will need to have a separate account created if I do not want to use my SSN.

    My lawyer is a tad busy kinda why I posted the question here.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    My lawyer told me that I needed to fund my trust. I am fairly ignorant on this and the Notary Public said that she does not know about firearm trust. The only trust she knows of will need to have a separate account created if I do not want to use my SSN.

    My lawyer is a tad busy kinda why I posted the question here.

    I would seriously ask your lawyer where he sees that in the statutes about Trust because i just don't see it, but maybe I missed it.

    No such creature as a firearms trust, a Trust is a Trust is a Trust.

    I swear by the hairs on the sweet baby Jesus, people are making this 10X as complicated and I have zero idea why they'd do such a thing.

    Seriously - ask your lawyer where MD requires a Trust be funded - IMHO, there is no statute or requirement. It's something that got in his ear at law school and has no basis in fact as far as I can tell.

    However, I could be 100% wrong and would love to see it in the law. Believe me, it doesn't exist.
     

    boricuamaximus

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 27, 2008
    6,237
    That's fine. The lawyer told me it needs to be funded. Personally, I am not a lawyers and I am not going to question your experience on this matter. You have trusts, I do not. It's my first time and since I dont want to have any issues when I send my paperwork in I went the lawyer route.

    Personally, I dont mess around to much when it comes to the law. I'll go ahead and wait for the reply to my email from the lawyer.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    That's fine. The lawyer told me it needs to be funded. Personally, I am not a lawyers and I am not going to question your experience on this matter. You have trusts, I do not. It's my first time and since I dont want to have any issues when I send my paperwork in I went the lawyer route.

    Personally, I dont mess around to much when it comes to the law. I'll go ahead and wait for the reply to my email from the lawyer.

    Certainly understandable; however, I am very eager to hear where he pulled the "funded" claim from - you know - if he actually based it some aspect of the law. :innocent0

    Chances are, he can not give you any citation of authority upon which he makes this claim and the reason for that - because there is none.
     

    Mega

    Wolverine
    Feb 18, 2009
    1,206
    Lewes, DE
    My lawyer told me the same.
    But by 'funded', he meant that NFA items needed to be paid for from the trust bank account.

    When I had my trust paperwork notarized at my credit union, I also established a checking and saving account for the trust at the same time.
    Both the notary work and the establishing of the trust account(s) was free.

    When my check went to the BATFE along with my form 1's, the check was written from the trust account with me as trustee.
    Same when I bought my suppressor. It (and the tax stamp) was purchased with a check from the trust account.

    The way the lawyer explained it, items being bought for the trust should be paid for from the trust account.
    That way the trust money and my money stay separate and there can never be any question in an audit.

    Moving money from my account to the trust account to 'fund it' is as easy as a couple of mouse clicks, and that too is free.
    As far as I'm concerned, it didn't (and doesn't) cost me anything extra, so it's a no brainer.
     

    boatbod

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 30, 2007
    3,827
    Talbot Co
    Funding A Trust concerns retitling or legally assigning assets to the trust. It does not require you to purchase the assets from a trust-owned bank account.

    http://wills.about.com/od/howtofundatrust/qt/typesoffunding.htm

    For the trust to exist, it needs at least one item of property, hence you need to "fund the trust" for it to exist and be able to be acceptable for NFA purposes.

    Common ways of funding the trust are to assign a piece of property or nominal quantity of cash. e.g. a $1 bill, firearm or something else tangible.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    My lawyer told me the same.
    But by 'funded', he meant that NFA items needed to be paid for from the trust bank account.

    When I had my trust paperwork notarized at my credit union, I also established a checking and saving account for the trust at the same time.
    Both the notary work and the establishing of the trust account(s) was free.

    When my check went to the BATFE along with my form 1's, the check was written from the trust account with me as trustee.
    Same when I bought my suppressor. It (and the tax stamp) was purchased with a check from the trust account.

    The way the lawyer explained it, items being bought for the trust should be paid for from the trust account.
    That way the trust money and my money stay separate and there can never be any question in an audit.

    Moving money from my account to the trust account to 'fund it' is as easy as a couple of mouse clicks, and that too is free.
    As far as I'm concerned, it didn't (and doesn't) cost me anything extra, so it's a no brainer.

    Well we are back to that again. Ok - well if it's not too much trouble - ask him where this Trust bank account advice came from. Seriously - maybe I will learn something.

    I really fail to see the difference between moving $1000 from a personal to a Trust account and taking the $1000 in the personal account and buying Item A, then moving it in as Trust property.

    Set aside the firearms thought for a minute. I can take my F-150 and move it to my Trust, which is 100%, perfectly legal. I can do the same with my home, 100% legal (a RE transfer has to take place, so it's not as easy as a truck, boat, etc).

    So say I want to put 10K in my Trust. I write a check on a personal account, deposit it in the Trust account and viola - done. The fact remains the 10K came out of my personal funds, ergo I can legally just take the 10K and drop it in the trust (requiring some sort of monetary device - CD, bank account, stock, whatever). Consequently, it's my well-reasoned opinion that all this "around robin's barn" stuff is simply mental masturbation and making much ado about nothing.

    While it has been stated that some attys have advised this route, not a single post can cite any statute, case, rule or other authority upon which they are basing their claim.

    Likewise claims that Trusts housing NFA and "horror stories" and wholly without merit and completely unsubstantiated. Not one single verifiable example has been proffered as proof. None! Yet folks just persist in repeating something they can't even be certain of, as NO ONE can trot out any proof at all.

    Seriously - this isn't what I expect of shooters.

    Now when you are dealing with corporations, the commingling of funds can lead to "piercing the corporate veil - which is 'nigh to impossible (at least in MD), yet I am unaware of any such Trust snafu.

    Look - you guys wanna get in lockstep with legal advice from folks that offer no basis for it - that's certainly your choice. Me - I'm from the "show me state" and my experience with experts tells me not everyone with a law degree is competent.

    What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 80?

    Your Honor :lol2:
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    Funding A Trust concerns retitling or legally assigning assets to the trust. It does not require you to purchase the assets from a trust-owned bank account.

    http://wills.about.com/od/howtofundatrust/qt/typesoffunding.htm

    For the trust to exist, it needs at least one item of property, hence you need to "fund the trust" for it to exist and be able to be acceptable for NFA purposes.

    Common ways of funding the trust are to assign a piece of property or nominal quantity of cash. e.g. a $1 bill, firearm or something else tangible.

    So instead of finding a MD statute on lexis (free) you grab a quick Google search and make "About" your Trust expert :sad20:

    I may be wrong, but I see no such MD requirement, so I call BS until such time as someone can show me a MD case, statute or rule supporting this claim. It's simply not true AFAIK.

    The thread has been running - we have zero support for the claims about Trust accounts and zero about Trust horror stories.

    Move this right up there with "Racking a shotgun scares off bad guys."

    Sorry to be the voice of discontent here men, but I call 'em as I see 'em and i see this as fashioned from whole cloth. :innocent0
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    TITLE 12. STATUTORY TRUSTS

    Subtitle 1. Definitions; General Provisions

    Maryland Trusts:

    (7) Acquire by purchase or in any other manner, and take, receive, own, hold, use, employ, improve, and otherwise deal with any interest in real or personal property, wherever located;

    Have at it men - show me where this made up requirement is, because plainly your high dollar lawyers have you fooled ;)

    Free - online - come on . . .

    http://www.michie.com/maryland/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&2.0
     

    Mega

    Wolverine
    Feb 18, 2009
    1,206
    Lewes, DE
    Well we are back to that again. Ok - well if it's not too much trouble - ask him where this Trust bank account advice came from. Seriously - maybe I will learn something.

    I don't know. He went to law school. I went to a different school..
    If you'd like his number, I'll PM it to you and you can ask him.
    For me... I'm doing what I paid him to do. Advise me.
     

    Maryland_Shooter

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 8, 2008
    917
    Glen Arm
    I don't know. He went to law school. I went to a different school..
    If you'd like his number, I'll PM it to you and you can ask him.
    For me... I'm doing what I paid him to do. Advise me.

    Sure send it - if you are too intimidated to ask, I'll do it for you.
     

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