Thanks again to the donut providers.
I suggest that churros be provided for the next meeting on the 19th.
Churros and empinadas.
HPRB January 2, 2016 Meeting Thread
- Thread starter Applehd
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast
Member Benefits:
No ad networks! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
Churros and empinadas.
Not cliché at all in my opinion, nor do I think you're being over optimistic. From literally within 30 seconds of the Chairman speaking he had my full and undivided attention.
I was captivated as well. He's really trying to rein this thing in. Hopefully it doesn't get blown up before serious progress can be made
- Jun 28, 2009
- 4,172
With all the changes that look to be forthcoming, I'm really pissed that I can't make the next meeting. But I'll definitely be checking .ds for play by play so I'll be counting on stoveman, dcw, and company
i'll try and make the meeting for you. can't say i can do the e-i-internet chatter stuff, but i will try and take your place next meeting, so long as we start a thread with the CORRECT date and time and address of said meeting. than you very much!
i'll try and make the meeting for you. can't say i can do the e-i-internet chatter stuff, but i will try and take your place next meeting, so long as we start a thread with the CORRECT date and time and address of said meeting. than you very much!
Well, if you're directly replacing me don't forget some donuts
- Jun 28, 2009
- 4,172
Well, if you're directly replacing me don't forget some donuts
i'll bring broccoli, kale, squash and carrot/cucumber slices, dip to the creamy peanut butter and mayonnaise chip-dip.
hodgepodge
Senior Member (Gold)
Heartfelt thanks to those who have been attending! Your persistence is pushing the board to represent citizens and not the MSP.
It truly sounds like the ground is shifting.
It truly sounds like the ground is shifting.
Kilroy
Ultimate Member
- Jul 27, 2011
- 3,069
Might as well turn the next one into an MDShooters potluck. I'll bring wings?
It is indeed nice of the MD Public Safety Commission to provide a nice comfortable heated/air conditioned space to have these bi-monthly MDS meet ups...
HPRB Meeting notes and audio for 1/6/2016
MEETING AUDIO
Mr. Wilson, Mr. Jurgena, Mrs. West and Mrs. White in attendance in addition to a new admin, and MR. Leggem.
Meeting opens at 6:08pm
4 reviews scheduled NO CASES WERE HEARD OR REVIEWED THIS EVENING.
12/28/15 tele-conference call with Mrs. Harris, Mr. Nathan, Mr. Leggem, Mr. Neverdon, Mr. Wilson and Mr. Jurgena about correcting board issues. Mr. Stephen Moyer has directed Ms. Harris and Mr. Neverdon to attend meetings. Mr. Wilson explaining the interpretation about hearings and reviews. Board now makes sure all members have complete files for reviews as in the past they were only given 1 copy for the entire board. Counsel and the board have decided that all cases will be hearings from now on unless applicant prefers a review. Board are now deciding how long parties should be allowed to give testimony. Chairman Wilson says that some of the MSP terms are difficult to interpret and understand. Some terms are not found in COMAR. Chairman says that some cases are still not ready for a decision because the board is still researching material. Chairman bringing up that MSP has not stated the reason for a denial, just cited Sherr and Snowden. Chairman now showing the approved flowchart for info between the MSP and the HPRB. Chairman now states that previously that the MSP was required to provide a burden of proof. It has been interpreted that the burden lies on the applicant. Mr. Wilson now asking Mr. Leggem if a licensee can attend a closed session deliberation/vote and whether an applicant can waive the right to privacy. Mr. Leggem says that Snowden is current state law. Mr. Wilson now addresses the denial of retired LE and how LEOSA pertains to LE and how citizens compare with qualification and training. Shelf-life of threats now being brought up by the chairman and asked to Mr. Leggem. Mr. Wilson now asks about tied votes and not having all 5 members. Counsel now say that the board can reconsider a case if no official decision has been issued.
MR. WILSON IS VERY CLEARLY MAKING SOME STATEMENTS AS TO HOW THE BOARD SHOULD CONSIDER CASES.
The chairman states that the board should be making decision on their own common sense and NOT according to the MSP SOPs.
MR. WILSON SAYS IT IS VERY IRONIC THAT MORE BUSINESS OWNERS AND EMPLOYEES ARE GETTING PERMITS, BUT NOT NORMAL CITIZENS WITH DANGER. “SEEMS A LITTLE LOPSIDED” and each applicant must be judged on their own merits.
Mr. Jurgena states that the HPRB policy and procedures are publicly posted. Also states that the “greater threat than those in the same community” is not found in law or COMAR. Mrs. White says the statement is based on a general comment.
Mr. Wilson remarks about the recent comment to about government being for the people and a service oriented entity.
Mrs. White motions to go into closed session. Mr. Jurgena seconds and all agree. 6:45pm
Meeting opens at 7:55pm
Mr. Wilson states that every applicant must submit all information and know their legal options before conducting a hearing or review. All reviews for tonight will not be conducted and all applicants will be notified as to their rights. Some past cases had information lost and no recordings available. Those applicants will be notified and be offered the opportunity at a new hearing.
Gryphon’s case is being reconsidered.
Mr. Wilson states that the board will be limiting hearings for 30 minutes. 10 minutes for the MSP, 10 minutes for the applicant and 5 minutes each for rebuttals.
Hearings for a licensee will be in closed session. Only attorney and applicant will be allowed in room for discussion and vote.
Mr. Jurgena states that the 30 day time period will expire due to all cases being hearings and not reviews.
The chairman reads a letter delivered by attorney Brittany Stouffer to reconsider the appeal of Mr. Timothy Montoya since no official opinion has been issued. Mr. Jurgena suggests tabling the issue to research the options of the board(even though the chairman earlier stated that Gryphon’s case would be reconsidered).
MEETING AUDIO
Mr. Wilson, Mr. Jurgena, Mrs. West and Mrs. White in attendance in addition to a new admin, and MR. Leggem.
Meeting opens at 6:08pm
4 reviews scheduled NO CASES WERE HEARD OR REVIEWED THIS EVENING.
12/28/15 tele-conference call with Mrs. Harris, Mr. Nathan, Mr. Leggem, Mr. Neverdon, Mr. Wilson and Mr. Jurgena about correcting board issues. Mr. Stephen Moyer has directed Ms. Harris and Mr. Neverdon to attend meetings. Mr. Wilson explaining the interpretation about hearings and reviews. Board now makes sure all members have complete files for reviews as in the past they were only given 1 copy for the entire board. Counsel and the board have decided that all cases will be hearings from now on unless applicant prefers a review. Board are now deciding how long parties should be allowed to give testimony. Chairman Wilson says that some of the MSP terms are difficult to interpret and understand. Some terms are not found in COMAR. Chairman says that some cases are still not ready for a decision because the board is still researching material. Chairman bringing up that MSP has not stated the reason for a denial, just cited Sherr and Snowden. Chairman now showing the approved flowchart for info between the MSP and the HPRB. Chairman now states that previously that the MSP was required to provide a burden of proof. It has been interpreted that the burden lies on the applicant. Mr. Wilson now asking Mr. Leggem if a licensee can attend a closed session deliberation/vote and whether an applicant can waive the right to privacy. Mr. Leggem says that Snowden is current state law. Mr. Wilson now addresses the denial of retired LE and how LEOSA pertains to LE and how citizens compare with qualification and training. Shelf-life of threats now being brought up by the chairman and asked to Mr. Leggem. Mr. Wilson now asks about tied votes and not having all 5 members. Counsel now say that the board can reconsider a case if no official decision has been issued.
MR. WILSON IS VERY CLEARLY MAKING SOME STATEMENTS AS TO HOW THE BOARD SHOULD CONSIDER CASES.
The chairman states that the board should be making decision on their own common sense and NOT according to the MSP SOPs.
MR. WILSON SAYS IT IS VERY IRONIC THAT MORE BUSINESS OWNERS AND EMPLOYEES ARE GETTING PERMITS, BUT NOT NORMAL CITIZENS WITH DANGER. “SEEMS A LITTLE LOPSIDED” and each applicant must be judged on their own merits.
Mr. Jurgena states that the HPRB policy and procedures are publicly posted. Also states that the “greater threat than those in the same community” is not found in law or COMAR. Mrs. White says the statement is based on a general comment.
Mr. Wilson remarks about the recent comment to about government being for the people and a service oriented entity.
Mrs. White motions to go into closed session. Mr. Jurgena seconds and all agree. 6:45pm
Meeting opens at 7:55pm
Mr. Wilson states that every applicant must submit all information and know their legal options before conducting a hearing or review. All reviews for tonight will not be conducted and all applicants will be notified as to their rights. Some past cases had information lost and no recordings available. Those applicants will be notified and be offered the opportunity at a new hearing.
Gryphon’s case is being reconsidered.
Mr. Wilson states that the board will be limiting hearings for 30 minutes. 10 minutes for the MSP, 10 minutes for the applicant and 5 minutes each for rebuttals.
Hearings for a licensee will be in closed session. Only attorney and applicant will be allowed in room for discussion and vote.
Mr. Jurgena states that the 30 day time period will expire due to all cases being hearings and not reviews.
The chairman reads a letter delivered by attorney Brittany Stouffer to reconsider the appeal of Mr. Timothy Montoya since no official opinion has been issued. Mr. Jurgena suggests tabling the issue to research the options of the board(even though the chairman earlier stated that Gryphon’s case would be reconsidered).
Last edited:
ShafTed
Ultimate Member
My random thoughts.
Chairman right off the bat pretty much admitted that the board had screwed up, and then started describing how they were going to improve the process. BIG TIME kudos to him for starting to set things right.
The donuts were much appreciated by all, including the chairman. I spoke to him briefly after the meeting, while he was eating one! (By that time I had already had my fill.)
They went into closed session for legal discussions, and the chairman was very careful to explain why and then followed procedure. (Called for a motion to go closed, got motion and second, and then the board voted to go closed. Sounds very kosher to me.) That said, the closed meeting stuff is getting to be a bit much. To me, it seemed that in the future all hearings (and even reviews) are going to be closed for the discussion and voting, maybe not for the testimony itself. (If I'm not correct on this, someone please let us know.) The reason given was that it is not legal to publicly identify anyone who has a permit. There was a law passed in response to some Posterior Aperture in NY that got a list of permit holders and published the names in a newspaper so I can see some usefulness in the law, but I still think there needs to be a way the whole process can be held in public.
Regarding the board getting legal counsel, I fear that my concerns have been realized and the Frosh will be shovelled relentlessly. When asked directly by the chairman about Snowden & Scherr being countermanded by McDonald, Woollard, etc. the first thing he said was that S&S are still in full force. The AG's office will keep reiterating that S&S have not been overturned, which is technically true, but they will NEVER admit that S&S have been invalidated by later rulings from higher courts. I am willing to be convinced, but will have to be convinced, that I am wrong on this. It remains to be seen if the board can plow through the Frosh and find their own way to the truth.
Chairman right off the bat pretty much admitted that the board had screwed up, and then started describing how they were going to improve the process. BIG TIME kudos to him for starting to set things right.
The donuts were much appreciated by all, including the chairman. I spoke to him briefly after the meeting, while he was eating one! (By that time I had already had my fill.)
They went into closed session for legal discussions, and the chairman was very careful to explain why and then followed procedure. (Called for a motion to go closed, got motion and second, and then the board voted to go closed. Sounds very kosher to me.) That said, the closed meeting stuff is getting to be a bit much. To me, it seemed that in the future all hearings (and even reviews) are going to be closed for the discussion and voting, maybe not for the testimony itself. (If I'm not correct on this, someone please let us know.) The reason given was that it is not legal to publicly identify anyone who has a permit. There was a law passed in response to some Posterior Aperture in NY that got a list of permit holders and published the names in a newspaper so I can see some usefulness in the law, but I still think there needs to be a way the whole process can be held in public.
Regarding the board getting legal counsel, I fear that my concerns have been realized and the Frosh will be shovelled relentlessly. When asked directly by the chairman about Snowden & Scherr being countermanded by McDonald, Woollard, etc. the first thing he said was that S&S are still in full force. The AG's office will keep reiterating that S&S have not been overturned, which is technically true, but they will NEVER admit that S&S have been invalidated by later rulings from higher courts. I am willing to be convinced, but will have to be convinced, that I am wrong on this. It remains to be seen if the board can plow through the Frosh and find their own way to the truth.
Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,287
As an observer from afar I get the impression that the chairman has gotten some legal advice on his own and came prepared to shoot down the BS being thrown. I also suspect that there is more to come from both the HPRB and MSP, the next few meetings could be very interesting.
I want to thank all in attendance at this and at all previous meetings. Thank you all for the real time reporting. And a thank you to all the MDS members who have contributed to the threads on these meetings. Without a doubt Maryland Shooters members have been the catalyst that started the changes that are happening in the process.
Let us all hope the changes and improvements continue until Maryland finally becomes a shall issue state as it should be.
I want to thank all in attendance at this and at all previous meetings. Thank you all for the real time reporting. And a thank you to all the MDS members who have contributed to the threads on these meetings. Without a doubt Maryland Shooters members have been the catalyst that started the changes that are happening in the process.
Let us all hope the changes and improvements continue until Maryland finally becomes a shall issue state as it should be.
- Apr 26, 2012
- 5,290
I would like to thank everyone that attended the meeting... and the Chairman for picking up the ball and running with it... I came away from this meeting in a much more relaxed mood than the last. The donuts were an added bonus... and for those who did not attend, this is what an HPRB/MDS meet and greet looks like... I believe we had another record turnout. 
Attachments
JPG
Ultimate Member
1. How did you get info from a teleconference?
2. Where does the teleconference end and the meeting start?
3. By the time of the next meeting these 4 members will either be confirmed or not by the General Assembly, correct?
2. Where does the teleconference end and the meeting start?
3. By the time of the next meeting these 4 members will either be confirmed or not by the General Assembly, correct?
Brooklyn
I stand with John Locke.
Users who are viewing this thread
Latest posts
-
Tennessee legislature passes bill to arm teachers; leftist lose their minds (18 Viewers)- Latest: Biggfoot44
-
Forum statistics
Latest threads
-
-
-
-
Tennessee legislature passes bill to arm teachers; leftist lose their minds (18 Viewers)- Started by jc1240
- Replies: 34
-
-
-
