Firearm thefts from vehicles in Frederick

DanGuy48 · Aug 13, 2018

Not_an_outlaw said:
If you know so much about this topic, why don't you post the link to the threads rather than make some condescending statement.

Agree. I think this must be what he’s referring to. It clears up nothing to me. There’s the law as written and then the resultant case law when neither side knows the answer (e.g. Blue v. PG County). I’ll continue transporting directly from home to authorized destination and back, no additional stops.

Inigoes · Aug 13, 2018

pilot25 said:
Exactly. Only matters what a judge thinks.

Law looks specifically written to me in the eyes of a MD anti gun lawmaker which are plentiful.

Life is full of risks. Is this one worth taking? Individual choice, I guess.

Not really, you can get arrested for following the law.

There are some folks in law enforcement who swear up and down that a loaded detachable magazine constitutes a loaded firearm. Even though you are in compliance with 4-203.

Mr. Ed · Aug 13, 2018

Inigoes said:
Not really, you can get arrested for following the law.

There are some folks in law enforcement who swear up and down that a loaded detachable magazine constitutes a loaded firearm. Even though you are in compliance with 4-203.

I think this is a valid point, as it addresses that our exposure to being arrested depends, in large part, on the LEO's understanding of the law, not always the law as written and interpreted by the courts. Yes, when a person gets to court, then the law will sort things out, but some of us have concerns that getting to that point will be something that we'd like to avoid if we can.

Inigoes · Aug 13, 2018

^^^^

Exactly, follow the law as written. Do not attract unwanted attention.

Transport discreetly, firearms out of sight, preferably in the trunk (outside of the passenger compartment)

P.S. Never consent to a search of your vehicle.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Aug 13, 2018

Inigoes said:
Never consent to a search of your vehicle.

Absolutely...excellent advice. I'm a retired cop and it's amazing how many arrests are made due to an officer simply asking to search a vehicle and finding some kind of contraband. Consent gets an officer everything...no probable cause required.

Unless an officer has probable cause that he articulate you are well within your rights to refuse.

pilot25 · Aug 13, 2018

Inigoes said:
^^^^

Exactly, follow the law as written. Do not attract unwanted attention.

Transport discreetly, firearms out of sight, preferably in the trunk (outside of the passenger compartment)

P.S. Never consent to a search of your vehicle.

Totally agree but what about if the vehicle is stolen or broken into while you make your stop?

The headline that scares me is, "Shopkeeper shot and killed with a stolen firearm that was being illegally transported."

Doesn't matter if the headline is right or wrong within the text of the law. Once the anti gun media gets a hold of it Frosh and Co can exploit it to make an example. The text as written may be arguable and I believe that is on purpose.

If laws were followed as written there wouldn't be a zillion lawyers, judges, and arguments about who is going to be on the Supreme Court.

I think you are right but I don't think the people in power, in this state, agree with you.

Mr. Ed · Aug 13, 2018

Does anybody have a link to the FNP news story about this? Thanks!

pilot25 · Aug 13, 2018

Mr. Ed said:
Does anybody have a link to the FNP news story about this? Thanks!

I don't think there is one. Just an announcement from MGN.

Cal68 · Aug 14, 2018

I am very glad that TMGN sent out this notice to their customers. I will be very careful not to stop anywhere after making a trip to the range in the future.

Cal68

Tungsten · Aug 14, 2018

If I do make a stop, I make sure to keep line of sight on my vehicle.

If I were ever to be pulled over, I would absolutely never consent to a search.

The only aspect I'm murky about is if the police specifically asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle.

HoCoShooter · Aug 14, 2018

Tungsten said:
If I do make a stop, I make sure to keep line of sight on my vehicle.

If I were ever to be pulled over, I would absolutely never consent to a search.

The only aspect I'm murky about is if the police specifically asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle.

As I understand it, you have no obligation to report it to the officer up front, but you better tell the truth if asked.

I would also not agree to a search, but I think if an officer wants to search your vehicle, they will find a way to either do that or make your day extremely difficult. I've never heard of an Officer saying, "No consent? ok no problem. Just thought I'd ask."

eruby · Aug 14, 2018

Tungsten said:
If I do make a stop, I make sure to keep line of sight on my vehicle.

If I were ever to be pulled over, I would absolutely never consent to a search.

The only aspect I'm murky about is if the police specifically asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle.

"There is nothing illegal in the car. Am I being detained, or am I free to go?"

Adolph Oliver Bush · Aug 14, 2018

Tungsten said:
The only aspect I'm murky about is if the police specifically asks if there are any weapons in the vehicle.

What do you open yourself up for if you reply: "There could be, officer. I am not the only driver of this vehicle. I did not search it for weapons before I got in it. I cannot attest that there are no weapons inside sir/ma'am."

True,
true

true,

and true.

I mean, WTH happens if you say no, somehow end-up getting searched, and they find the hunting knife that you lost under the seat 2 years ago?

Only gets you as far as "Do you know whether there are any weapons in the vehicle?", I know.....

Somewhat back on topic, I agree that with handguns, no intermediate stops are allowed in Maryland, the civil rights-free state.

rbird7282 · Aug 14, 2018

pilot25 said:
I can't argue anything. I'm not a lawyer. Nor do I want to be in court trying to explain the word directly to a judge when a three year minimum sentence and loss of career is hanging over my head.

Just reading the text I wouldn't take a chance. Seems clear cut to me. However, like someone said it's clear this text (law) applies to handguns. The FAQ, I pulled off the MD site says firearm.

Just providing info. Not telling anyone what to do or think. My opinion is it isn't worth the risk. Where I got my HQL, they recommended to always travel home with my range receipts so I can prove I'm going to and from.

And there are some HQL instructors that spout off many things that are simply false.
What if you’re a member of a range where you don’t get a receipt? I am.

Can you find ONE case of someone arrested for illegally transporting a firearm that was going to or coming from the range that stopped for food or gas? If you’re not allowed to stop under any circumstances, why haven’t the people who’ve had guns stolen when they did stop not been arrested for illegal transportation?
BGOS around here is crazy sometimes.

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rbird7282 · Aug 14, 2018

eruby said:
Fixed.

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rbird7282 · Aug 14, 2018

eruby said:
"There is nothing illegal in the car. Am I being detained, or am I free to go?"

THIS. Every time.

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rbird7282 · Aug 14, 2018

Adolph Oliver Bush said:
What do you open yourself up for if you reply: "There could be, officer. I am not the only driver of this vehicle. I did not search it for weapons before I got in it. I cannot attest that there are no weapons inside sir/ma'am."

True,
true

true,

and true.

I mean, WTH happens if you say no, somehow end-up getting searched, and they find the hunting knife that you lost under the seat 2 years ago?

Only gets you as far as "Do you know whether there are any weapons in the vehicle?", I know.....

Somewhat back on topic, I agree that with handguns, no intermediate stops are allowed in Maryland, the civil rights-free state.

How would your car be getting searched unless you gave consent? (Or if the officer had probable cause)

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pilot25 · Aug 14, 2018

rbird7282 said:
And there are some HQL instructors that spout off many things that are simply false.
What if you’re a member of a range where you don’t get a receipt? I am.

Can you find ONE case of someone arrested for illegally transporting a firearm that was going to or coming from the range that stopped for food or gas? If you’re not allowed to stop under any circumstances, why haven’t the people who’ve had guns stolen when they did stop not been arrested for illegal transportation?
BGOS around here is crazy sometimes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you look further up the thread I posted the law from MD.gov site. Seems cut and dry to me but as you can tell there is a bit of disagreement with it.

I haven't looked up case law regarding the matter. As someone posted it might be like going 57 in a 55 but if things were to go bad like a firearm being stolen from your car, at a store, and then used to kill people right there. Hypothetically, if that were to happen and hit the press the owner would be fodder for Moms Demand and the like.

Its all speculation and may be a 1 in a million but thefts are happening now with MGN. So that's half the equation.

Inigoes · Aug 14, 2018

pilot25 said:
If you look further up the thread I posted the law from MD.gov site. Seems cut and dry to me but as you can tell there is a bit of disagreement with it.

I haven't looked up case law regarding the matter. As someone posted it might be like going 57 in a 55 but if things were to go bad like a firearm being stolen from your car, at a store, and then used to kill people right there. Hypothetically, if that were to happen and hit the press the owner would be fodder for Moms Demand and the like.

Its all speculation and may be a 1 in a million but thefts are happening now with MGN. So that's half the equation.

There is no difference in someone stealing your firearm and then doing something nefarious, and someone stealing your car and doing something nefarious.

Your obligation ends at reporting the theft, in good faith.

rbird7282 · Aug 14, 2018

pilot25 said:
If you look further up the thread I posted the law from MD.gov site. Seems cut and dry to me but as you can tell there is a bit of disagreement with it.

I haven't looked up case law regarding the matter. As someone posted it might be like going 57 in a 55 but if things were to go bad like a firearm being stolen from your car, at a store, and then used to kill people right there. Hypothetically, if that were to happen and hit the press the owner would be fodder for Moms Demand and the like.

Its all speculation and may be a 1 in a million but thefts are happening now with MGN. So that's half the equation.

Thefts are indeed happening with MGN customers but this is nothing new. It’s happened at On Target and probably every other range to some degree. I would venture to guess that a gun stolen from someone on the way home from the range has already been used in a murder. (Not saying this state necessarily, but somewhere)
Moms and the rest of the gun control freaks don’t really need another story, they’ll make up whatever they have to to fit their narrative anyway.
If someone’s gun safe was broken into and 30 guns were stolen and used for mayhem, MDA would still blame the gun owner for having so many guns.
In my opinion you can make a stop, but we interpret that differently. People just need to be aware they aren’t being followed and if they are either call the police or drive to a police station.

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Firearm thefts from vehicles in Frederick

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