W&C - Restrictions & Informal Review

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Can you get your permit as a business owner of a practice?
    I don't own it. I'm employed. A real estate agent can get an unrestricted permit, a doctor cannot without being a business owner.

    For the Dr. he might like Crocs in different colors and types .

    :lol:

    I wear sneakers to work.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,232
    Carroll County
    I'm a doctor who can prescribe narcotics from my phone 24/7. I can't get an unrestricted permit.

    I always thought you were a Propane Salesman, and you could carry anytime you have a bottle of propane with you.


    c9bd21cf-0e4d-4e15-ba47-bfa362fe5ab7_1.1f1dce2b891cf152d39e1237fab002ef.jpeg
     

    PJS

    Heavy
    Feb 4, 2014
    167
    Baltimore
    Back in the day I did the informal appeal - since it is conducted by the same people who issued the restricted permit, you can imagine how it went. Had a very nice conversation with a Trooper, and he denied my appeal. Before I got to the handgun review board, they changed the rules, and I went unrestricted as a business owner/real estate agent.

    I am not an attorney, but my attitude when I still had a restricted permit was that it would be pretty difficult for the state to prove I wasn't working, and it probably wouldn't matter if I was/wasn't if the interaction with LE went so poorly as to have it be an issue. But YMMV, and certainly I would not recommend anyone violate MD law.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,306
    Underground Bunker
    Back in the day I did the informal appeal - since it is conducted by the same people who issued the restricted permit, you can imagine how it went. Had a very nice conversation with a Trooper, and he denied my appeal. Before I got to the handgun review board, they changed the rules, and I went unrestricted as a business owner/real estate agent.

    I am not an attorney, but my attitude when I still had a restricted permit was that it would be pretty difficult for the state to prove I wasn't working, and it probably wouldn't matter if I was/wasn't if the interaction with LE went so poorly as to have it be an issue. But YMMV, and certainly I would not recommend anyone violate MD law.

    I agree i would never want to violate any law, but being self employed and able to make decisions on when i turn on my business persona is strictly in my court.

    I tried to explain during my hearing that i meet clients at the store while shopping and talk business, so is that working ?? I think so and i was on a restricted permit at the time .

    I think it is so STUPID for the MSP to say you are okay to carry certain hours but not at other times. I have been to OC and find stuff i bring back for my company , how does one account for a 50/50 split on business and pleasure .

    What are permit holders to do. ?? I am glad they have moved slightly on this position and hopefully the courts make them move all the way to the right thing . Carry for all , with the liberal democrats and defunding and making crime acceptable more people will need to protect themselves .
     

    winch

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 14, 2011
    1,326
    Towson
    Plenty of people with restricted permits would do things like carry around $100 in cash with a slip of paper saying "for deposit" - or similar theatrics - so that they were in effect always on the way, eventually, to an ATM for that pending bit of business activity. Yes, it's absurd. But it provides the pretext for what you might need to be able to say if you have a LEO encounter.

    With restrictions, everything is 100% subjective, And Maryland has something like three thousand law enforcement agencies. You can be sure they are all over the map in terms of what (if any) policy position they've passed along to officers that might have you in a traffic stop, or responding to a "Man With Gun" call because Karen saw your waistband carry when you were reaching for top-shelf bourbon at the liquor store.

    Having a clipboard full of in-bounds paperwork and some pending bank activity in your vehicle may seem like theater, but it's not an unethical sham when it comes to why it's necessary in the first place: Maryland.

    I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law or be generally naughty about anything, or risk their permit on a too-flimsy pretext. Just think about what in-your-possession items are, by their nature, the sort of things that signal being well inside your restrictions.

    Hopefully I'll be able to look back at this discussion later this summer and laugh at how quaint and ridiculous it was.

    I too am hoping for a positive SCOTUS ruling and hope that unrestricted carry will become a reality in my lifetime. It's a natural God-given right in any case.
     

    Nobody

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 15, 2009
    2,810
    I don't own it. I'm employed. A real estate agent can get an unrestricted permit, a doctor cannot without being a business owner.



    :lol:

    I wear sneakers to work.


    Just my opinion and we know what that is worth.

    Are real estate people sub contractors and working for them selves under a different company and therefore not employees per se.

    That would be the difference , if you work for a hospital then you are employed by that hospital.

    I may be and have been before totally wrong.

    Nobody
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Just my opinion and we know what that is worth.

    Are real estate people sub contractors and working for them selves under a different company and therefore not employees per se.

    That would be the difference , if you work for a hospital then you are employed by that hospital.

    I may be and have been before totally wrong.

    So…the medical license, DEA permit, State CDS permit are mine. If they fire me tomorrow, I can still practice medicine and prescribe. They employ me because I can practice medicine, it’s not the other way around. Does that change your opinion?
     

    TopTechAgent

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 30, 2012
    991
    Mooresville, NC
    W&C - Restrictions & Informal Review

    Just my opinion and we know what that is worth.

    Are real estate people sub contractors and working for them selves under a different company and therefore not employees per se.

    That would be the difference , if you work for a hospital then you are employed by that hospital.

    I may be and have been before totally wrong.

    Nobody


    That is correct most agents are independent contractors. As an agent in MD it took me many years challenging MSP to get my permit and then two visits to the HPRB to obtain restriction removal. It wasn’t until they started un restricted for all business owners that RE agents began getting un restricted. That was August of 2019.

    A fellow MDSr was instrumental in this fight and I believe when he was about to challenge at the OAH with a potential win …the MSP decided to moot it by making those concessions. Wouldn’t want to set legal precedent!

    That being said. It’s completely wrong that an employed doctor cannot get an unrestricted permit. They can be on call, targets of abduction for drug scripts , etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    That is correct most agents are independent contractors. As an agent in MD it took me many years challenging MSP to get my permit and then two visits to the HPRB to obtain restriction removal. It wasn’t until they started un restricted for all business owners that RE agents began getting un restricted. That was August of 2019.

    A fellow MDSr was instrumental in this fight and I believe when he was about to challenge at the OAH with a potential win …the MSP decided to moot it by making those concessions. Wouldn’t want to set legal precedent!

    That being said. It’s completely wrong that an employed doctor cannot get an unrestricted permit. They can be on call, targets of abduction for drug scripts , etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Minor but important correction. I’m not an “employed doctor”, I am a “doctor who happens to be employed”.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    A hospital I used to work for made it very clear that their doctors were not agents or employees of the hospital.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    A hospital I used to work for made it very clear that their doctors were not agents or employees of the hospital.

    Those were the days. I have to do all the inservices everyone does. Of course, I only do them every 3 years when I get a visit from the department chair because HR is harassing him. Of course, he’s already sent 2 e-mails I didn’t read because I don’t check my work e-mail. Then I just do the post tests because I can recognize a stroke, heart attack, run away if I hear gun shots, and no matter how much I want to, don’t touch the boobies. But I’m in the 90th percentile of revenue generators, so they tolerate me. Someday they’ll get sick of my shenanigans.

    If HR followed me around for a day they’d be appalled. I was talking to an NP today (she’s one of my best friends, a lot of people think we’re having an affair. We think it’s funny. We now refer to having a conversation by an older word, “intercourse”). I went over to her office to catch up. I sat down and took my mask off. She smiled and said, “oh, we’re having unprotected intercourse”. I told her she looked nice.
     

    Stoveman

    TV Personality
    Patriot Picket
    Sep 2, 2013
    27,986
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    That is correct most agents are independent contractors. As an agent in MD it took me many years challenging MSP to get my permit and then two visits to the HPRB to obtain restriction removal. It wasn’t until they started un restricted for all business owners that RE agents began getting un restricted. That was August of 2019.

    A fellow MDSr was instrumental in this fight and I believe when he was about to challenge at the OAH with a potential win …the MSP decided to moot it by making those concessions. Wouldn’t want to set legal precedent!

    That being said. It’s completely wrong that an employed doctor cannot get an unrestricted permit. They can be on call, targets of abduction for drug scripts , etc.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Those HPRB meetings were incredibly frustrating, sometimes positive and always entertaining. I miss the Tuesday evening MDS meet ups that posed as official state business.
     

    TopTechAgent

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 30, 2012
    991
    Mooresville, NC
    Those HPRB meetings were incredibly frustrating, sometimes positive and always entertaining. I miss the Tuesday evening MDS meet ups that posed as official state business.


    So many Patriots banded together to shake up the status quo and make change! I think much frustration was dealt back to that other side which was very satisfying!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    So many Patriots banded together to shake up the status quo and make change! I think much frustration was dealt back to that other side which was very satisfying!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    You guys were no doubt instrumental in them doing what they did in shutting it down. You all deserve much appreciation and respect. Hopefully SCOTUS will tip their hat to you this summer!
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,690
    You guys were no doubt instrumental in them doing what they did in shutting it down. You all deserve much appreciation and respect. Hopefully SCOTUS will tip their hat to you this summer!

    Yeah, the GA hated that the HPRB started to think for itself. Had to be taken down.

    I was pleased to rattle Dumais's undershorts when I expressed my dismay, as a citizen of Takoma Park, to find that a citizen's review board was going to be shut down; why, it would be unheard-of in TP to let the government go unreviewed!

    Probably just as well that the GA closed its doors to the citizenry. With POC middle fingers flying around the hearing rooms, it was only a matter of time before people testifying would be dragged forcibly from the chamber . . . oh, wait . . .

    Tip of the hat to Mrs Judah, and her cookies.
     

    TopTechAgent

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 30, 2012
    991
    Mooresville, NC
    For anyone interested in some backstory about the final days of restrictions for business owners here’s a thread.

    https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=235753

    There were so many patriots working from all angles to fight for our rights. I found it interesting that at the time (06/2019) there were hopes that NYSPRA Vs NY would be settled within a year.

    A right delayed is a right denied.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,922
    Messages
    7,259,087
    Members
    33,349
    Latest member
    christian04

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom