Received letter today from BATFE regarding purchase from Diversified Machine

outrider58 · Dec 31, 2021

erwos said:
If Diversified Machine shipped him something that the ATF already considered a suppressor, it does not matter if he had his stamp. You cannot use a form 1 to order in a complete SBR, for example; it is permission to MANUFACTURE, not to transfer. If I ship you a Colt 6933 with no form 4, the ATF is going to be busting you and me for it even if you had a form 1 to build an SBR.

The "lol **** the ATF crowd" really does not seem to understand the nuances of the law. I'd strongly advise consulting a lawyer before blowing this off.

OP did not buy a complete suppressor. Machine work by the OP was required in order to arrive at a complete suppressor. The OP purchased said parts in good faith from a reputable(arguably) company.

A Colt 6933 without a stock attached is nothing more than a pistol, is it not?

calicojack · Dec 31, 2021

In defense of the OP, the ATF letter does not (to me at least) make it clear the nuance between transferring and building a form 1 item. Seems to me OP did in good faith register his NFA item. IDK, my take as a non-lawyer.

erwos · Dec 31, 2021

outrider58 said:
OP did not buy a complete suppressor. Machine work by the OP was required in order to arrive at a complete suppressor. The OP purchased said parts in good faith from a reputable(arguably) company.

A Colt 6933 without a stock attached is nothing more than a pistol, is it not?

The ATF is disagreeing. They are saying what you bought was suppressor parts, and that was illegal. You want to fight it out in court with them, go for it.

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calicojack · Dec 31, 2021

erwos said:
The ATF is disagreeing. They are saying what you bought was suppressor parts, and that was illegal. You want to fight it out in court with them, go for it.

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This is why we need in this country ~~LEGAL~~ legalization of suppressors. My goodness, even Socialist Britain allows gun owners to buy suppressors.

erwos · Dec 31, 2021

calicojack said:
This is why we need in this country LEGAL suppressors. My goodness, even Socialist Britain allows gun owners to buy suppressors.

Please don't think I agree with the ATF or NFA. I am only trying to explain the situation as it is, since so many people here don't seem to understand it.

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calicojack · Dec 31, 2021

erwos said:
Please don't think I agree with the ATF or NFA. I am only trying to explain the situation as it is, since so many people here don't seem to understand it.

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I totally get that. I think this is an excellent thread.

Squaregrouper · Dec 31, 2021

The first post includes a very generic form letter that I'd be willing to bet went out to a metric shit ton of DM's customers. The OP, in the same post, clarified he had his tax stamp prior to placing the order.
The above being stated, I believe this is a big nothing burger. If I were the OP, I would let the BATFE know he received their letter and had a Form 1 tax stamp in hand prior to purchasing the silencer/suppressor parts.

erwos · Dec 31, 2021

You guys keep not understanding that a form 1 doesn't give you permission to buy suppressor parts.

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Squaregrouper · Dec 31, 2021

erwos said:
You guys keep not understanding that a form 1 doesn't give you permission to buy suppressor parts.

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I fully understand what you're saying, but I disagree with the way they are randomly choosing what is the suppressor part du jour. I think we would all agree that buying baffles with holes already drilled would be a suppressor part. From there it gets hazy.
When I bought my threaded titanium tube from SD Tactical, was I buying a suppressor part or a piece of threaded titanium tube? How about freeze plugs from Napa?
Recently I bought a tube and titanium cups from Quietbore. They required a copy of my Form 1 and engraved the tube for me before mailing it out. How in God's Green Earth is that not buying suppressor parts with a Form 1?
What we're debating is the randomness of the ATF's interpretations.

teratos · Dec 31, 2021

ToolAA, in your research, have you found an ATF determination letter?

ToolAA · Dec 31, 2021

squaregrouper said:
Recently I bought a tube and titanium cups from Quietbore. They required a copy of my Form 1 and engraved the tube for me before mailing it out. How in God's Green Earth is that not buying suppressor parts with a Form 1?
What we're debating is the randomness of the ATF's interpretations.

I think this is a great point. Frankly had Diversified Machine asked for a copy of my Form-1 I could have provided it, and the transaction would have been essentially identical to what you describe from Quietbore. As a Form-1 holder at the time of the transaction my legal status shouldn’t be in question..

I think from the ATF’s standpoint there are ”potentially” thousands of persons who did by parts from DM who MAY NOT have had the legal authorization to create suppressors. That potential is what creates this CYA blanket form letter to be sent to everyone. It’s in essence a presumption of guilt action. It’s lazy enforcement at best. However, I’m no fool, just because some agency is acting in a lazy manner, doesn’t mean anyone receiving a letter should.

I’ve been reading anecdotal reports on Reddit where some have called the number and have reported their Form-1 status, and have been told they are in good standing. Sounds like BS to me. If it’s not in writing it doesn’t count. I suspect there are many people who are having lawyers craft responses. I would also expect that it will take a full year before the BAFTE actually responds back, if at all.

ToolAA · Dec 31, 2021

teratos said:
ToolAA, in your research, have you found an ATF determination letter?

No not yet. I had to work yesterday. I’m really just getting my first chance to scour the interwebs.

TrappedinMD · Dec 31, 2021

Fwiw the letter has no phone number, if you try calling you go thru several layers of automation before the system hangs up on you. A 2A lawyers paid opinion is this is just a phishing operation.

Oneqwickr6 · Dec 31, 2021

I think anyone with a form 1 competed before they manufacted there suppressor is fine and should be worry free. from what I have read on Reddit several of the guys have talked to there ATF field branch and were told if they got form 1s they were fine. Take that for what you will I think they are going after people that completed them without a form 1. Quietbore has stated that they have approval from the ATF to continue with there sales the way they are conducting now with an uploaded form 1. Quietbore is also a FFL SOT and if the ATF felt those items should be transferred on the form 4 and not sold to customers with a form 1 then they would not of given them the ok to continue doing business the way they are now.

ToolAA · Dec 31, 2021

outrider58 said:
For me, I did not join the Form1 suppressor build band wagon.

We’ll clearly now, you are missing out on all of the fun…

erwos · Dec 31, 2021

outrider58 said:
All I'm saying is why would the ATF let someone sell, as you call them, suppressor parts and then go after the people who bought those parts in good faith?

For me, I did not join the Form1 suppressor build band wagon.

They wouldn't. But they also wouldn't let them keep them.

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outrider58 · Dec 31, 2021

ToolAA said:
We’ll clearly now, you are missing out on all of the fun…

Evidently.

So DM was raided about a year ago and now they're going after everyone who ordered at least one part intended for use in a suppressor. From what I am reading, it has nothing to do with a "complete kit" for building a suppressor. From the original definition from the 1968 NFA "...combination of parts, designed or redesigned,..." Well shit, that would make any Form1 suppressor illegal. Or am I reading it wrong(see underlined)?

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/a...ters-to-thousands-of-silencer-part-consumers/

This is where we are now. :popcorn:

rbird7282 · Jan 1, 2022

outrider58 said:
OP did not buy a complete suppressor. Machine work by the OP was required in order to arrive at a complete suppressor. The OP purchased said parts in good faith from a reputable(arguably) company.

A Colt 6933 without a stock attached is nothing more than a pistol, is it not?

Exactly.

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babalou · Jan 1, 2022

agreed

calicojack said:
In defense of the OP, the ATF letter does not (to me at least) make it clear the nuance between transferring and building a form 1 item. Seems to me OP did in good faith register his NFA item. IDK, my take as a non-lawyer.

I agree

Butcher · Jan 5, 2022

Just checking in to see if your dogs are ok

Received letter today from BATFE regarding purchase from Diversified Machine

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