Young Opening Brief Filed

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    krucam

    krucam

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 5, 2008
    8,929
    3rd Rock from the Sun...DFW, TX
    Good: CA9 painted themselves into a corner saying Concealed is not protected. They would now have to admit that the right can be severely restrained outside the home, given that Open carry is mostly prohibited legislatively in HI I believe, similar to CA. CA9 to overturn en banc will have to come up with another Judicial Gymnastic (ala Peruta) to overrule, making it more likely for SCOTUS picking it up but not as likely as if Hawaii were to skip en banc and take their loss on appeal to SCOTUS.

    Bad: CA9 would not likely grant en banc unless they had the intent of overturning. This process will take 1-2 years as well.
     
    pcfixer

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,954
    Marylandstan
    krucam said:
    Good: CA9 painted themselves into a corner saying Concealed is not protected. They would now have to admit that the right can be severely restrained outside the home, given that Open carry is mostly prohibited legislatively in HI I believe, similar to CA. CA9 to overturn en banc will have to come up with another Judicial Gymnastic (ala Peruta) to overrule, making it more likely for SCOTUS picking it up but not as likely as if Hawaii were to skip en banc and take their loss on appeal to SCOTUS.

    Bad: CA9 would not likely grant en banc unless they had the intent of overturning. This process will take 1-2 years as well.
    Click to expand...


    Where does this leave Maryland with "good and substantial"?

    Also where does than leave the ruling by the 4th of AR's and semi auto rifles and not protected by the 2A?

    wolfwood
    Senior Member

    Young Opening Brief Filed

    So I took over a pro se case coming out of Hawaii awhile back. I filed the opening brief today. It has not been approved by the Court yet. It is with a bit of trepidation that I post this. I spent a lot of time on this and I figured I'd post this and give anyone that needs notice of this notice.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/125758371/...f-George-Young

    I am hoping to establish 3 basic things in this case that was not covered in our appeal in Baker.

    1) a rifle is a protected class of arms
    2) a shotgun is a protected class of arms
    3) a knife is a protected class of arms.
    All three were mentioned as protected arms Heller but in dicta. Heller II ruled long arms in general are protected but did not establish rifles and shotguns are two separate class of arms.
    In Hawaii there is no means to carry a long arm for lawful self defense outside the home. I argue that there must be one for both rifles and shotguns.
    Click to expand...
     
    danb

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    Inigoes said:
    Totally unrelated, until Young wins at the Supreme Court.
    Click to expand...

    Even if Young wins, the ruling so far does not directly address good and substantial or shall issue. It may take a more lawsuits to decide exactly which hurdles HI can place on licensing for outside the home carry and whether licensing must be shall issue. I highly doubt the Supreme Court will endorse constitutional open carry. Although I can certainly hope!

    CA9th may take the case en banc, not to overrule it per se, but to narrow the opinion to tailor it for may-issue type licensing. Young may get a permit, but no one else.
     
    Inigoes

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,586
    SoMD / West PA
    danb said:
    Even if Young wins, the ruling so far does not directly address good and substantial or shall issue. It may take a more lawsuits to decide exactly which hurdles HI can place on licensing for outside the home carry and whether licensing must be shall issue. I highly doubt the Supreme Court will endorse constitutional open carry. Although I can certainly hope!
    Click to expand...

    I disagree with the point about G&S.

    Hawaii has the G&S requirement in it's law, and chooses that no reason posited by a civilian is acceptable. That was argued in this case before the panel.
     
    G

    GlocksAndPatriots

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 29, 2016
    763
    Inigoes said:
    I disagree with the point about G&S.

    Hawaii has the G&S requirement in it's law, and chooses that no reason posited by a civilian is acceptable. That was argued in this case before the panel.
    Click to expand...

    The difference is that MD, NJ, CA, and NY grant SOME permits, just very few. They'll argue that that is a distinction.

    In any event, all of the particulars (shall issue/may issue, concealed carry, assault weapons, magazines, background checks, etc.) come down to standard of review. As long as the Supreme Court allows (tacitly, by denying cert) rational basis review (I don't care if they call it intermediate, it's not), any restriction will basically be upheld. Until the Supreme Court requires strict scrutiny, or at least intermediate scrutiny without total deference to legislative "weighing" of evidence as to the "fit" of the regulation, we're out of luck.
     
    pcfixer

    pcfixer

    Ultimate Member
    May 24, 2009
    5,954
    Marylandstan
    The panel stated that restricting open carry to those whose job entails protecting life or property necessarily restricts open carry to a small and insulated subset of law-abiding citizens.
    The panel reasoned that the typical, law-abiding citizen in the State of Hawaii was entirely foreclosed from exercising the core Second Amendment right to bear arms for self-defense.
    The panel concluded that Hawaii’s limitation on the open carry of firearms to those “engaged in the protection of life and property” violated the core of the Second Amendment and was void under any level of scrutiny.

    And WE should all agree and have the same level of scrutiny in Maryland. G&S should and will not meet the level of "engage in protection of life and property"!
     
    W

    wolfwood

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 24, 2011
    1,361
    fidelity

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    wolfwood said:
    new free beacon article
    "George is a good man," he said. "The federal court system isn't just for big businesses. It should be for everyone. I feel strongly he at least needed to be allowed to be heard, especially over something like the Second Amendment. You know, he's complaining about his constitutional rights, and they're not even letting him show up."
    https://freebeacon.com/politics/meet-native-hawaiian-army-veteran-just-won-major-gun-carry-case/
    Click to expand...
    Nice background on Mr. Young. That Beck guy sounds ok too.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
     
    danb

    danb

    dont be a dumbass
    Feb 24, 2013
    22,704
    google is your friend, I am not.
    I heard a story on the news today that the Los Angeles Subway will be installing portable cameras scanners. This devices can scan 3000 people an hour for weapons.

    I believe there something you can also get for your phone that will do this, but it cost about $2000.


    It occurred to me that in 10 years there will be minimal difference between open and concealed carry of weapons. There will not even be a tactical advantage because criminals will carry unlocked phones and be able to scan passers by.

    This distinction by the CA9 will be meaningless.
     
    jaredm1

    jaredm1

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 22, 2008
    1,937
    Shrewsbury
    I would still prefer concealed because the average person won't be scanning you, but may (probably not) notice if you're open carrying. Concealed carry will always draw less attention and as a bonus you don't look like a goofball (no offense to those who intentionally choose open carry).
     
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