Active shooter drill at elementary school

So, my three boys (pre-k, 1st and 3rd graders) came home from school today and told my wife and I that they had a "hide from the bad guys" drill in school today. Got most of the story from my 3rd grader, but my 4yr old was going on about how they had him hide in the closet.

I'm not too surprised that they held this drill (Considering what happened at Perry Hall High last year), and I do kind of see the value in this, but the fact that they did not send a note home or notify the parents at all that this is something that may will happen kinda has me peeved. We get phone calls several times a week about all kinds of random stuff, fund raisers, etc, but no phone call for this?

I expect my kids to have to do fire drills, and we talk about fire safety at home, but you don't always expect to have to discuss active shooter drills with 4 yr olds.

Did this happen in any other public schools on Baltimore County?

Definitely think that my wife and I will have a word or two with the principal about this. Don't think it's fair to have to hear about Thai for the first time from 4 and 6 yr olds.


Would like to get other folks opinions.

Haven't heard anything from my kids on this, got one in 3rd and one in 5th. Guess I'll be proactive and call the school tomorrow and see if anything like this is planned.

That's rather concerning. I remember being in 2nd grade and practicing "code red" drills, but I'm pretty sure parents were notified via letter and take-home notice before the drill. This was in '95 or'96.

The teachers are the only ones who really need to know what the drill is for. They could call it a tornado drill or something else and not have to worry about freaking the kids out. Side note, I remember when we started doing these in HS after Columbine. They had us file out into the freaking hallways and sit down. Told the principle (who I was on good terms with) that it was the dumbest thing they could have us do and if something like that happened at our school, I'd be busting out a window and running the opposite direction not sitting like a duck.

I mentioned in another thread that the standards for how many emergency drills has been expanded this year. Instead of 10 drills, this year the schools have to do 16....the additional 6 cannot be fire drills and must be drills for things like "shelter in place", "lockdown", "modified lockdown", and even a new thing called a "reverse fire drill"...where a fire drill happens because there is something dangerous in school, and then it's decided outside it more dangerous than inside so the entire population has to quickly go back in to the school. ....yes, for real

For the lockdown drills(I believe my school has one scheduled for 3pm tomorrow), the teacher is directed to lock the doors, cover windows, turn off lights, and have the kids sit in a part of the room away from doors and windows. They'll usually have some form of visual communication under the door or in the window to let the administrators, walking around checking, know the kids are all accounted for. Personal bias of the teacher can come in to play here. If the teacher is a super commie antigun libtard, the explanation to their kids may be based around someone with evil guns posing a threat. I typically focus on the fact that it is a lockdown drill and let them know what their responsibilities are. It's not typically normal for kids to be shuttled in to a closet, although at one school we left the gym and sat in a stair well leading to the stage for shelter in place and modified lockdowns.

It does worry me that these drills can be used to associate guns with bad people, but it is probably a very good thing to practice what everyone should do during an emergency. You don't want a school of 700 kids and adults just figuring out things on the fly when communication may not exist. As always, you have the most influence on your kids and can have a good conversation on what they should do in a variety of situations. Working within the school system, when jenni and I finally have kids, they're not going to get the same directions from me as the school system will give them. It is always smart from an admin point of view to let the parents know when things like these drills may happen so parents have the opportunity to support the school and teachers by talking to their kids ahead of time.


p.s.- I personally think it's silly to think the same drills they had in sandy hook will do anything to stop another shooting. We all know here that it's basic common sense that there needs to be good people with guns in a school to stop bad people with guns. Teachers need a lawful pathway to voluntarily carry firearms for the defense of their students and selves.

We had drills in elementary school and middle school in Baltimore City. Doors were locked and some of the male teachers took up baseball bats and patrolled the halls. Had to use call for this alert a few times in my 5 years in city schools. Mostly goofballs entering the school without checking into the office. Honestly, I would not be too upset. I am glad they are planning for the worse. Could they have notified the parents?Sure, but then I am sure some of the parents would have bitched about that too.

Being the husband of a teacher and father of an elementary kid I can say I would like there to be more emergency drills.
The purpose of such drills need not be explained in elaborate detail to the students but the parents should be told that x number of drills for x number of reasons will occur each year.
My wife has been part of a few real emergency situations that required evacuations so she appreciates the practice for the sake of the kids. They become innoculated by the drills and don't react strongly when it is the real deal thus no panic.

Im not a parent so I guess thats why I dont really agree with you here. Id want the suprise aspect for the kids as opposed to them being coached by their parents beforehand. You arent going to get nearly the reaction you would if they all said hey were having a drill tomorrow.

are we talking about just "lock down drills" or is there now an "active shooter drill" that they practice>?

I suppose the alternative is to not practice them and then we can enjoy the ensuing commentary about how schools don't prepare for this sort of thing.

Norton makes the point for practice of some sort vs no practice.

I will make some observations.

A school system , is a System. Inherent in it's nature such a system prizes (at least the semblence of ) preplanning , order, and accountability over the presence of students at any given moment.

As contrast , the maximum chances for surviuval in case of active shooter/ terrorist assult is absolute total chaos. Kids running randomly in every direction . With the primary goal to get the heck out of Dodge. Out of the building , off the grounds , and into the nest zip code if they can.

Sure , the school admin will look foolish , and catch heat from the media and angry parents when they don't have instant accounting of the survivors.

I'd rather have survivors hauling butt zig zaging thru the woods three mile away , and still going , than having an easy accounting of the bodies of the victims killed in place a la Newtown and Va Tech . But that's just me. Oh and my daughter too . I tought her my famous line from one inservice training . " Yeah , but I'd be alive in order to get suspended ."

Biggfoot44 said:

As contrast , the maximum chances for surviuval in case of active shooter/ terrorist assult is absolute total chaos. Kids running randomly in every direction . With the primary goal to get the heck out of Dodge. Out of the building , off the grounds , and into the nest zip code if they can.

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You would likely have far more injuries and deaths simply from the stampede in the hallways. Even in a fire drill, it takes 3-6 minutes to empty out a high school and that is with kids nuts to butts trying to get out of the building.

Certainly where there are outside exits, it would be prudent to make an exit after determining that there weren't more threats outside the doors. But modern schools make that very difficult. The problem is that schools are built today for:

A. Energy efficiency, meaning no windows.
B. As few entrances/exits as can be had without violating fire codes, for security reasons
C. Convoluted hallway systems that fold in on themselves, for a more compact footprint due to scarcity of real estate

You simply cannot come on the PA system and tell 2500 kids and 250 adults in a modern high school to run for their lives and expect that there will not be significant injuries if not deaths due to the panic.

My main classroom is dead center in the middle of the building, as far away from an exterior exit as you can get. I would have to send my kids out into a main hallway that was built for a school half the current capacity. Not to mention that we've just herded all of the kids into one convenient location where they can be picked off easily.

Again, while I agree with the premise that getting away from the threat is inherently a good idea, to suggest that a free for all of kids running every which way is an improvement over shelter in place is not as clear cut as one may think.

I remember kids running into solid wood doors at Glen Burnie High during bomb threats. Serious injuries occurred without anything real happening.

IMHO, drills are very good and should be conducted often. People are creatures of habit and training creates a habit, just like muscle memory. If a fire breaks out, the children will resort to their training and do as they usually do. There will be a higher level of fear to those that realize the fire is real and not just another drill, but those who don't know, won't panic (hopefully). The drills also remind kids where to go so they can be accounted for, just like home fire drills. I remind my kids how to get out, what to do and where to meet in case of an emergency.

It's not that the drills are being practiced; it's a lack of communication from the schools on it. If schools aren't notifying parents about the drills and plans, I find that concerning.

Then there is the insanity of having everyone 'hide in a closet' if there is an active shooter. Lets all group together in a space that does not afford us room to move or run! That sounds like a great idea. Anyone ever hear that expression about fish in a barrel?

Also, your odds of being in a school shooting are statistically probably lower than getting hit by lightening... TWICE... Why don't we have hide from the bad cloud drills?

kiriyama9000 said:

It's not that the drills are being practiced; it's a lack of communication from the schools on it. If schools aren't notifying parents about the drills and plans, I find that concerning.

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That's my main point. I'm ok with the drill, but want to be able to discuss it with my kids without being blindsided. (Especially by a 4 yr old)

daijizai said:

Then there is the insanity of having everyone 'hide in a closet' if there is an active shooter. Lets all group together in a space that does not afford us room to move or run! That sounds like a great idea. Anyone ever hear that expression about fish in a barrel?

Also, your odds of being in a school shooting are statistically probably lower than getting hit by lightening... TWICE... Why don't we have hide from the bad cloud drills?

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Lockdowns during a violent intruder incident are really about compartmentalizing things and buying time. If someone goes in to a school to shoot, the thing that will stop them is someone with a gun. Many schools don't have someone good with a gun in them and need to call for the cops to come and confront the threat. While the school is waiting around for the cops to get there, they need to put barriers between the shooter and the potential victims. The barriers can and probably will be defeated, but they'll buy time for the police to get there.

By locking down, the kids are placed in a relatively safe spot in the room(away from doors and windows), and behind a locked door or doors. They're safer there than crammed in a hallway, or running out in an open field. It forces the shooter to have to break in to where the kids are to gain access to them, slowing the shooter down and buying time for cops to get there. It also is a highly organized way of quickly accounting for where every student is and allowing the adult in charge to better communicate with them.

While speaking of the adult in charge, they ultimately have the final say in things. The drills present a framework from which to work, but if a shooter is trying to break in to the gym doors, I am free to move my kids behind a couple locked doors in the storage area...or just out the back away from the threat. In all school shootings, the common thread is that many teachers were straight up heroic in their efforts to save their kids. Whether it be the principal at sandy hook that gave up her life confronting the shooter, or the professor at VT that attempted to hold the doors closed while being shot. There's nothing I won't do to protect my kids, I genuinely care for them and will not let someone hurt them. This desire to protect our kids will trump a framework and if the need arises, the teacher will do what they have to do in the interest of your kids safety.

It's not perfect, but within the framework schools are given, it's the best solution for now. Again though, allowing me to legally have a gun on my hip so I can defend my students immediately instead of buying time for police to do it would be much better.

I'm not too surprised that they held this drill (Considering what happened at Perry Hall High last year), and I do kind of see the value in this, but the fact that they did not send a note home or notify the parents at all that this is something that may will happen kinda has me peeved. We get phone calls several times a week about all kinds of random stuff, fund raisers, etc, but no phone call for this?

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With older kids I can understand the surprise aspect, but I agree with you completely that it is easy enough to give parents a heads up with the little ones, elementary age. My 5 year old has been having bad dreams about the Boston bomber's pictures that he saw for a split second, there is no telling how each kid will react to a situation. It would be helpful as parent to be able to watch out and make sure they did not get freaked out.

I have no problem with it being done, just need to inform parents.

smokey0118 said:

Lockdowns during a violent intruder incident are really about compartmentalizing things and buying time. If someone goes in to a school to shoot, the thing that will stop them is someone with a gun. Many schools don't have someone good with a gun in them and need to call for the cops to come and confront the threat. While the school is waiting around for the cops to get there, they need to put barriers between the shooter and the potential victims. The barriers can and probably will be defeated, but they'll buy time for the police to get there.

By locking down, the kids are placed in a relatively safe spot in the room(away from doors and windows), and behind a locked door or doors. They're safer there than crammed in a hallway, or running out in an open field. It forces the shooter to have to break in to where the kids are to gain access to them, slowing the shooter down and buying time for cops to get there. It also is a highly organized way of quickly accounting for where every student is and allowing the adult in charge to better communicate with them.

While speaking of the adult in charge, they ultimately have the final say in things. The drills present a framework from which to work, but if a shooter is trying to break in to the gym doors, I am free to move my kids behind a couple locked doors in the storage area...or just out the back away from the threat. In all school shootings, the common thread is that many teachers were straight up heroic in their efforts to save their kids. Whether it be the principal at sandy hook that gave up her life confronting the shooter, or the professor at VT that attempted to hold the doors closed while being shot. There's nothing I won't do to protect my kids, I genuinely care for them and will not let someone hurt them. This desire to protect our kids will trump a framework and if the need arises, the teacher will do what they have to do in the interest of your kids safety.

It's not perfect, but within the framework schools are given, it's the best solution for now. Again though, allowing me to legally have a gun on my hip so I can defend my students immediately instead of buying time for police to do it would be much better.

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Well crafted argument. You have (mostly) won me over to the idea of herding children behind barriers if something happens, but not to the sanity of making kids practice for something so specific and unlikely, scaring and scarring them in the process.

It creates a culture of fear that will do nothing but draw society down.