Features wouldn't matter. If someone converts it to use the same parts of the banned firearm, its a copy.
No different than sticking a M4 profile barrel on a legally purchased HBAR.
Polytech M14s and H&K HK MR556 NOT banned in MD
- Thread starter Xander
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Features wouldn't matter. If someone converts it to use the same parts of the banned firearm, its a copy.
No different than sticking a M4 profile barrel on a legally purchased HBAR.
Regarding the MR556A1 this is what we sent:
Please find attached the pictures I took today of the MR556 in comparison to the standard AR. I used Engage parts as a reference. The first is a comparison of the BCGs. As you can see, the thing is complete different. The standard AR gas key is absent. On the MR556, since it uses a proprietary piston, it has a one piece carrier for the piston to strike. No parts between the two bolt carriers are interchangeable actually, and all of HKs parts are proprietary. The is a trigger retarder on the HK bolt as well, spring loaded firing fin, and a spring loaded bolt. All of these parts are absent on a standard AR.
The next set is a comparison of the uppers. The photo is taken with our lower being level to the camera. The HK upper is much taller. This is necessary for their gas system to function. This means no standard AR carrier will fit in there properly and function, but also that no standard AR rail system will mate with it either. So you have to use rail systems that are specifically made for the HK and cannot accept any AR rails.
The third set is really important. The length of the threading on the upper is different between the mil spec AR and the HK set up. This means it will not accept standard AR barrel nuts but most importantly no AR barrels. HK barrels are not available on the commercial market. Only from demilled guns. Its a totally proprietary set up.
I also added a photo of the barrel contour. This is basically .750 throughout. Its HBAR all the way. Its a match barrel, set up for competition. It even has a two stage match trigger standard. It doesnt even have a full auto carrier or an upper that will fit over a GI sear. The carrier trip is not long enough to trip the GI sear or a drop in (I tried converting one and ruined it).
Please find attached the pictures I took today of the MR556 in comparison to the standard AR. I used Engage parts as a reference. The first is a comparison of the BCGs. As you can see, the thing is complete different. The standard AR gas key is absent. On the MR556, since it uses a proprietary piston, it has a one piece carrier for the piston to strike. No parts between the two bolt carriers are interchangeable actually, and all of HKs parts are proprietary. The is a trigger retarder on the HK bolt as well, spring loaded firing fin, and a spring loaded bolt. All of these parts are absent on a standard AR.
The next set is a comparison of the uppers. The photo is taken with our lower being level to the camera. The HK upper is much taller. This is necessary for their gas system to function. This means no standard AR carrier will fit in there properly and function, but also that no standard AR rail system will mate with it either. So you have to use rail systems that are specifically made for the HK and cannot accept any AR rails.
The third set is really important. The length of the threading on the upper is different between the mil spec AR and the HK set up. This means it will not accept standard AR barrel nuts but most importantly no AR barrels. HK barrels are not available on the commercial market. Only from demilled guns. Its a totally proprietary set up.
I also added a photo of the barrel contour. This is basically .750 throughout. Its HBAR all the way. Its a match barrel, set up for competition. It even has a two stage match trigger standard. It doesnt even have a full auto carrier or an upper that will fit over a GI sear. The carrier trip is not long enough to trip the GI sear or a drop in (I tried converting one and ruined it).
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- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Exactly, it is a COPY or IMITATION.
The post I was referencing said it would turn it into a COPY CAT, which is not correct.
fightinbluhen51
"Quack Pot Call Honker"
- Oct 31, 2008
- 8,974
How in the hell can this law have been upheld when they are still making the rules to implement it.
"We have to pass it to find out what
is in it."
"We have to pass it to find out what
is in it."
NateIU10
Ultimate Member
We've had a few come through and can order more. They're pretty awesome (especially the SBRs).
AimsWellShootsWorse
Active Member
Has MSP reviewed any (non-Colt) HBAR National Match guns?
Has MSP reviewed any (non-Colt) HBAR National Match guns? Have any been submitted for review?
For example, this by Rock River: https://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=226
Or this one by Armalite:
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15A4NM
Has anyone submitted such models for MSP review? Would be awfully nice to have a definitive green light on HBAR National Match guns w/o regard to brand, or even just a precedent on the RR or Armalite HBAR models.
But I guess a definitive red light would be a tragic risk, too....
Has MSP reviewed any (non-Colt) HBAR National Match guns? Have any been submitted for review?
For example, this by Rock River: https://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=226
Or this one by Armalite:
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15A4NM
Has anyone submitted such models for MSP review? Would be awfully nice to have a definitive green light on HBAR National Match guns w/o regard to brand, or even just a precedent on the RR or Armalite HBAR models.
But I guess a definitive red light would be a tragic risk, too....
I think there is already a definitive green light on those guys. In fact, I don't think it could any more clear that those are copies of the Colt HBAR Sporter.
AwesomeBill
Awesome Member
Currently 3 Polytech / Norinco M14s rifles on Gunbroker for less than $1000.
I can wait for an IP here to get them in. Works out about the same and these guys have been working very hard for us.
AwesomeBill
Awesome Member
No one is going to be "stocking" Norinco or Polytech guns. They haven't been legal to import since the 90's. You are going to have to get one second hand and have it transferred.
ken792
Ultimate Member
A copy of a legal gun should still be legal?
AimsWellShootsWorse
Active Member
Getting other HBARs listed by MSP as ok'd?
Great. I agree it couldn't me more clear. But neither of those rifles, or AFAIK any other (*non*-Colt) HBARs, appear on that MSP listing of reviewed-and-approved models. If there is no ambiguity about the 'cash-n-carry' status of these Armalite or RR rifles, why not submit them expressly for MSP review and approval?
Can anyone submit such a request w/o naming a Maryland FFL, as the application for review on the MSP site seems to require? Might this be a situation where asking permission (from MSP) is much better than asking forgiveness (from a judge or jury)?
Great. I agree it couldn't me more clear. But neither of those rifles, or AFAIK any other (*non*-Colt) HBARs, appear on that MSP listing of reviewed-and-approved models. If there is no ambiguity about the 'cash-n-carry' status of these Armalite or RR rifles, why not submit them expressly for MSP review and approval?
Can anyone submit such a request w/o naming a Maryland FFL, as the application for review on the MSP site seems to require? Might this be a situation where asking permission (from MSP) is much better than asking forgiveness (from a judge or jury)?
Not saying this is bad news, but wasn't it clearly stated by the MSP that the MR556 is banned? I recall a thread on this not too long ago. This is really messed up. This whole thing is so screwed up. They pass laws that they don't understand. Even the pull down web page on MSP's site reflected this. This may be a stupid question but is Andy and his legal team the one doing the charge? I need to stop by and say thanks (and buy something 
)
)OrbitalEllipses
Ultimate Member
Engage appears to be doing a lot of heavy lifting.
Absolutely. 
They’re the first I’d heard of submitting a post-281 AR pistol to the roster board. Also received clarification on LDS-FRS-14-002 that SBR and pistol versions of banned firearms were still legal. Not sure but I think they had a hand in making the case that available legal configurations meant banned stripped receivers (at least ARs so far) should be allowable for sale again (hopefully C&C at some point in the future). Add piston ARs to the list.
Pending argument on why OAL (maybe more broadly, the copycat test as a whole?) shouldn't apply to SBRs.
That's what I've seen so far and I'm not even an active poster. That’s not to take away from other IPs or individuals either. I’m sure there are several working (probably together at times) behind the scenes. Bottom line, thank you.
They’re the first I’d heard of submitting a post-281 AR pistol to the roster board. Also received clarification on LDS-FRS-14-002 that SBR and pistol versions of banned firearms were still legal. Not sure but I think they had a hand in making the case that available legal configurations meant banned stripped receivers (at least ARs so far) should be allowable for sale again (hopefully C&C at some point in the future). Add piston ARs to the list.
Pending argument on why OAL (maybe more broadly, the copycat test as a whole?) shouldn't apply to SBRs.
That's what I've seen so far and I'm not even an active poster. That’s not to take away from other IPs or individuals either. I’m sure there are several working (probably together at times) behind the scenes. Bottom line, thank you.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Hmm, if SBR versions are legal, that opens a can of worms.
I submit a Form 1 for an SBR version of a banned firearm. I get it approved, and I make it. But I also make a longer than 16" barrel part to swap onto the SBR. But if I do that, I am making a banned firearm, as BATFE states that if you replace the SBR barrel with an over 16" barrel, the firearm is not then an SBR.
Also, I wonder if the L1A1 would be legal now. While it is based on the FAL, the parts are not interchangeable as they are different dimensions. That would be a fun one to submit.
I submit a Form 1 for an SBR version of a banned firearm. I get it approved, and I make it. But I also make a longer than 16" barrel part to swap onto the SBR. But if I do that, I am making a banned firearm, as BATFE states that if you replace the SBR barrel with an over 16" barrel, the firearm is not then an SBR.
Also, I wonder if the L1A1 would be legal now. While it is based on the FAL, the parts are not interchangeable as they are different dimensions. That would be a fun one to submit.
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