4 HO CO Police roll up - man with a gun

kohburn said:

I'm a big fan of tact, but unless someone is making us all look like raving loons then i'm ok with their lack of it.

OC is not a matter of tact. (thought i am not a fan of the OC of rifles into starbucks, that didn't win any friends)

soap boxing and yelling at strangers would be.

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Brooklyn said:

Ask them why. Mostly they are repeating nonsense in order to sound 'reasonable'.


Say "Really? We have all these things and Baltimore is still a war zone-- I think that raises a doubts in my mind --- how about you? Can you tell why all this stuff is not working and yet we need more of it? "

They will proceed to make your case themselves. Most of these guys just don't want to be thought of as holding extreme views. make it safe form them to think and they will surprise you..

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AwesomeBill said:

The Starbucks thing was stupid. Period. Idiots on "our side" forced their hand. With friends like these, right?

I do disagree with you though. At this point in time, in this area of the country, OC is absolutely a matter of tact.

I am saying that we should work towards a future where it isn't.

Few things stir up this board as much as a youtube vid of a cop confronting a guy OCing. Or some OCer quoting law and rulings to beat cops. It is clearly a controversial topic, even among people who are pro-2a! That is why I think OC is something that calls for tact. And I'm a guy who OCs.

So, I say we agree to disagree on OCing. And lets put that energy into taking some new people to the range.

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ShallNotInfringe said:

Stupid question #7,658,025: What is a FUDD?

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Fudd
Slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally treat owners/users of so called "non sporting" firearms like handguns or semiautomatic rifles with unwarranted scorn or contempt.
"See sonny, all those pistols in that cabinet... all thems is good for is killin people." -Example of ignorant comment from a fudd at a local gun shop. See also: Zumbo.

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pbharvey said:

this:

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AwesomeBill said:

Oh god yes. This state isn't even close to being ready for the OC discussion. That would backfire on us something bad right now.

We have to tailor our messages to the audience. We are selling our ideas.

Not that Carroll County is a cakewalk....

I was in my LGS when a generic FUDD came in to get a soon-to-be-banned naughty gun. He proceeded to tell me that he didn't mind all of the paperwork, and background checks, and waiting period. Because it was keeping the guns out of the wrong hands. And we just needed to close the gun show loophole and take care of these straw purchases. Dead serious.

I wanted to slap the guy. But I didn't. I wasn't even rude, although I almost bit off my tongue. Instead, I took a deep breath, and engaged him. Pointed out that all of these hoops didn't actually decrease crime. And straw purchases are almost never prosecuted. And that there was no thing as a "gun show loophole".

Did any of it sink in? Don't know. Might have wasted my breath. Or maybe it did start some wheels turning.

I'll try again with the next Fudd though. And the one after that.

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marte616 said:

Absolutely on the money! I for one, take my daughter's teenage / college-age friends shooting, and show them to respect, but not fear, guns. I also take my son's therapists (21's ~ 23's). Most of these kids grew up in suburban sheltered environments and have never handled a gun. I ask them to tell me what they know about the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and try to correct any misperceptions. Oi emphasize the importance of the 2A, the NRA's role in training and arming freedmen right after the Civil War, all the way to the Deacons for Defense in Louisiana during the 60's. I educate them on how, through propaganda, the Left (worldwide) has managed to brainwash the sheeple that we don't have to fear the .gov or that we don't need guns. And i ask them do their own research on how billions of humans have been exterminated by ruthless dictators because they did not have the means to resist.

This is how we make sure we create a new generation of gun owners and advocates of the B.O.R./2A.

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Dave T said:

Plus, nowadays kids have their x boxes and play-stations. Seems it's OK for kids to act out killing people in a computer game, but target shooting out back with a real gun... that's taboo. Just seems like there's something wrong there.

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ericoak said:

If you put this to a referendum you would get creamed. The only option is the courts.

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UNcommon Arms said:

To all those “grousers” too timid to talk to the hostile press and complain that I did. Know this, I have been a zealous advocate for 2A rights since 1969. I have done far more to promote lawful use of firearms than anyone I know. Keeping silent about different types of arms or calibers is NOT the way to win an issue. If you actually think – even dopey Liberal – legislators don’t know or have staffs that know all the types of arms there are - you’re burying your head in the sand.
• I have testified before congressional committees
• The MD Legislature
• Written and Published editorial 2A articles in numerous newspapers
• Have met personally with O’Malley and Gansler, Ben Cardin and Mikulski – Educating them on firearms. Unfortunately, their ideological dogma blinds them to reason
• Have spent countless hours of my valuable time campaigning against feckless gun laws
• I’ve even saved guns from destruction at the FECKLESS “gun buybacks”
• Recruited and registered scores of conservative voters
• And more…
• Join me in PROMOTING the 2nd Amendment instead of grousing that the press did not laud the 2nd Amendment as I do
Lamenting and grousing on MDShooters gets us nowhere. If everyone here was as openly vociferous an advocate FOR 2A rights - as I am - Maryland would not be the liberal bastion that it is.
I’m out there in public everyday advocating for civil rights and educating the public about the 2nd Amendment. I wish you all would join me instead of cowering here on MDShooters.
I know Martin O'Malley personally {since 1993}. One of his chiefs of staff is my good neighbor {he actually a Rockefeller Republican} I know Doug Gansler on a personal basis too, as well as many more liberal legislators... Ed Kasemeyer {my neighbor} Jim Robey, Ken Ulman, Guy Guzzone and more...
I have known these "characters" personally as neighbors and professionally through my leadership roles in the REALTPOR community.
Trust me when I tell you this, THEY {Liberals} ARE AWARE of every caliber, every type of firearm and they want to incrementally control the citizenry until they achieve their utopia - where every citizen is beholden and dependent upon the government.
It is every patriot’s job to explain the negative impact of disarming law abiding citizens to as many people as possible -including the hostile press.
I've known Matt Bush for {NPR Reporter} several years and never found him to be biased one way or the other on controversial topics. I did not find his edited report {from our 1 hour interview} biased one way or the other; he merely reported facts. The AR10 is not banned the AR15 -- IS -- which, we - as the enlightened - know is useless in controlling criminal behavior.
Instead of grousing on MDShooters - it would better serve 2A advocates and bolster our position if those same "grousers" contacted NPR and offered their opinions and expertise.
I have always been an outsider - just like Ted Cruz - in my various professions. The Real Estate community shunned me when I promoted "buyer agency" and "home inspections" in the early 80's. By the 1990's Home inspection were common place and by 1996 "Buyer Agency" was the law of the land. In 1991 I was elected President of the MD/DC REALTOR Sales Chapter. I have always been ahead of my time and eventfully time has caught up to my prescience; I'm sure the shooting community will too.

:-)

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ShallNotInfringe said:

Stupid question #7,658,025: What is a FUDD?

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teratos said:

I don't know that the focus on the fact of what they did and did not ban is terribly helpful. Frankly, pointing this kind of thing out to people who want to ban ALL guns is just going to bring about more attempts at bans. As you mentioned, it is an ideological argument, and it won't help. Their base is pleased that "all the scary guns were banned". Point out to THEM that they are still very much available, and may be even more lethal than what they thought they got rid of, and they will want to see further bans. The focus should be on the fact that this is a fundamental Right. The other point worth making is that a class of firearms was banned because they were scary. It should be pointed out that none of the steps taken will do a single thing to reduce crime.

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UNcommon Arms said:

I don't know that the focus on the fact of what they did and did not ban is terribly helpful.

No one did that. I pointed out the ABSURDITY of "bans." The reporter agreed.

Frankly, pointing this kind of thing out to people who want to ban ALL guns is just going to bring about more attempts at bans.

No it doesn't. "Banners" want to band everything they don't understand. My goal is to enlighten.

As you mentioned, it is an ideological argument, and it won't help. The focus should be on the fact that this is a fundamental Right.

I ALWAYS point out that self defense IS a fundamental right, just like freedom of speech.

The other point worth making is that a class of firearms was banned because they were scary. It should be pointed out that none of the steps taken will do a single thing to reduce crime.

I made those points too. NPR did not have air time to regurgitate ALL I said.

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teratos said:

You are not going to change the minds of people with this ideology.

This is very much like a fear of snakes. A large segment of the population is terrified of them. You can talk all you want about how helpful they are, how gentle they are when you keep them as pets etc. It will not sink in. You will not get past that fear. If they think they got rid of all the scary snakes, then they find out there is a bigger, badder snake out there how will they react. Don't point out the bigger, badder snake.

The liberal are the wrong people to talk to about this anyway. We need to be focusing on people who are outside of the argument. Enlighten them about the Rights they have. Many people don't even know they have this Right. Once people are aware of Rights, they don't want to see them lost.

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