4 HO CO Police roll up - man with a gun

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  • marte616

    God bless America...
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 15, 2008
    1,355
    Occupied Territory
    A the end of the day, even after thousands of us poured into lawyers Mall, hundreds of us testified against Sb281 with nothing but facts, science, and logic, the anti- Constitution Progressive legislators, and gpvernor M.O.M. wiped their collective arses with said Constitution, and our precious B.O.R. Was further shredded.

    Zealots and ideologues aside, providing the public with facts and science is what we need to be doing. Call the radio stations, write LTEs.
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    Some of the comments here have entirely NO basis. I know this FFL personally and he has been a great supporter of the 2A movement. However, because some of you want to bash his 1A by labeling him this or that doesn't make you smarter or better. He brings a service to this already screwed up State and quite honestly anyone that says otherwise is FOS. I'd like to see just one of you elitist bashers demonstrate how you've furthered the 2A agenda other than with you communist manifesto bravado of all talk around the cooler. PATHETIC.

    You divide us ALL and create divide/alienation. You support nothing but your own charismatic perspectives. You may, indeed, go f*ck yourselves when you attack one of our own.

    Just because people share our views does not mean everything they do is correct or harmless. I don't feel the need to crow about "what I have done" in furthering the pro-2A agenda. There are a LOT of people in this thread that have done an awful lot...apparently more than you realize. Things like this can erase some of the progress we have made, so we take it a bit personally at times. There are some things we just don't need to talk about. Especially to the media. I don't believe he intended to be anything other than helpful. I just think it was an unwise move. This is not an MSI opinion, this is a personal opinion.

    Just as Jeff has the 1A Right to say what he wants, others have a 1A Right to disagree. You are trying to bully people into not disagreeing, if you think about it. Like it or not, we are fighting a PR war as much as anything. When we educate the public about these things, we need to be in an arena where WE control the message, not the media. The media, by and large, is not on our side. We can do community outreach, take people shooting, show them that these firearms are used for recreation, talk to them about crime statistics, talk to them about what laws would make a difference, show them that gun bans have no effect on crime. Crowing about what they DIDN'T ban and talking about how they are "the same thing" or "more powerful" is not helpful.
    We are a large group with wide and varied opinions. Some seem afraid to show their faces (BGO's). While others are more up front and want the world to see things our way. Some of us are a little bit much for most but we need to figure out how to work together and change this state. I believe in going Full Alinsky on them. Their tactics work. We need to keep our message out there. None of us are perfect but we all need to be in the fight and make our faces or hair known.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    We are a large group with wide and varied opinions. Some seem afraid to show their faces (BGO's). While others are more up front and want the world to see things our way. Some of us are a little bit much for most but we need to figure out how to work together and change this state. I believe in going Full Alinsky on them. Their tactics work. We need to keep our message out there. None of us are perfect but we all need to be in the fight and make our faces or hair known.

    I agree.
     

    AwesomeBill

    Awesome Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    261
    Westminster
    A the end of the day, even after thousands of us poured into lawyers Mall, hundreds of us testified against Sb281 with nothing but facts, science, and logic, the anti- Constitution Progressive legislators, and gpvernor M.O.M. wiped their collective arses with said Constitution, and our precious B.O.R. Was further shredded.

    Zealots and ideologues aside, providing the public with facts and science is what we need to be doing. Call the radio stations, write LTEs.

    Don't forget the "other end" of spreading the message. Create more gunowners. One person at a time. Start with people "on the fence" about guns. Bring them over to our side with these same facts. Take them shooting.

    This has been my focus after all of the time I spent in Annapolis. I started with my group of friends. Turns out one couple was staunchly anti. And no amount of discussion, or facts, or logic changed that. They "knew in their gut" that guns were evil. Actual quote. So, I don't waste time with them anymore.

    Two other couples and some other friends and co-workers are new and proud gun owners. These were all people that didn't care one way or another about the issue. Now they all do. And I've seen some of them start to tell other fence-sitters about the positives of gun ownership.

    I've even had some rather staunch, self described liberals change their minds on the issue. Once I drew the parallels between government infringement on firearms with government infringement on other rights, they looked at the "gun issue" at a different angle. A positive angle. They now agree that the 2nd is right there with the 1st, and neither should be subject to government or popular infringement.

    The media blitz is important, but so is the one on one. That's all I'm trying to get across.

    If each of us does step up and act as 2a spokesmen year round we will win this thing. Not today, not tomorrow, not next year. Not with one great victory. But one person at a time. Hearts and Minds are what matter. Ours is the Positive message. The message of Rights. We just keep working to spread it.
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    Don't forget the "other end" of spreading the message. Create more gunowners. One person at a time. Start with people "on the fence" about guns. Bring them over to our side with these same facts. Take them shooting.

    This has been my focus after all of the time I spent in Annapolis. I started with my group of friends. Turns out one couple was staunchly anti. And no amount of discussion, or facts, or logic changed that. They "knew in their gut" that guns were evil. Actual quote. So, I don't waste time with them anymore.

    Two other couples and some other friends and co-workers are new and proud gun owners. These were all people that didn't care one way or another about the issue. Now they all do. And I've seen some of them start to tell other fence-sitters about the positives of gun ownership.

    I've even had some rather staunch, self described liberals change their minds on the issue. Once I drew the parallels between government infringement on firearms with government infringement on other rights, they looked at the "gun issue" at a different angle. A positive angle. They now agree that the 2nd is right there with the 1st, and neither should be subject to government or popular infringement.

    The media blitz is important, but so is the one on one. That's all I'm trying to get across.




    If each of us does step up and act as 2a spokesmen year round we will win this thing. Not today, not tomorrow, not next year. Not with one great victory. But one person at a time. Hearts and Minds are what matter. Ours is the Positive message. The message of Rights. We just keep working to spread it.



    :thumbsup:

    But... we must smile when we do it. No anger, or it will play into the hands of the opposition.
     

    marte616

    God bless America...
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 15, 2008
    1,355
    Occupied Territory
    Create new converts

    Don't forget the "other end" of spreading the message. Create more gunowners. One person at a time. Start with people "on the fence" about guns. Bring them over to our side with these same facts. Take them shooting.

    This has been my focus after all of the time I spent in Annapolis. I started with my group of friends. Turns out one couple was staunchly anti. And no amount of discussion, or facts, or logic changed that. They "knew in their gut" that guns were evil. Actual quote. So, I don't waste time with them anymore.

    Two other couples and some other friends and co-workers are new and proud gun owners. These were all people that didn't care one way or another about the issue. Now they all do. And I've seen some of them start to tell other fence-sitters about the positives of gun ownership.

    I've even had some rather staunch, self described liberals change their minds on the issue. Once I drew the parallels between government infringement on firearms with government infringement on other rights, they looked at the "gun issue" at a different angle. A positive angle. They now agree that the 2nd is right there with the 1st, and neither should be subject to government or popular infringement.

    The media blitz is important, but so is the one on one. That's all I'm trying to get across.

    If each of us does step up and act as 2a spokesmen year round we will win this thing. Not today, not tomorrow, not next year. Not with one great victory. But one person at a time. Hearts and Minds are what matter. Ours is the Positive message. The message of Rights. We just keep working to spread it.

    Absolutely on the money! I for one, take my daughter's teenage / college-age friends shooting, and show them to respect, but not fear, guns. I also take my son's therapists (21's ~ 23's). Most of these kids grew up in suburban sheltered environments and have never handled a gun. I ask them to tell me what they know about the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and try to correct any misperceptions. Oi emphasize the importance of the 2A, the NRA's role in training and arming freedmen right after the Civil War, all the way to the Deacons for Defense in Louisiana during the 60's. I educate them on how, through propaganda, the Left (worldwide) has managed to brainwash the sheeple that we don't have to fear the .gov or that we don't need guns. And i ask them do their own research on how billions of humans have been exterminated by ruthless dictators because they did not have the means to resist.

    This is how we make sure we create a new generation of gun owners and advocates of the B.O.R./2A.
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    Absolutely on the money! I for one, take my daughter's teenage / college-age friends shooting, and show them to respect, but not fear, guns. I also take my son's therapists (21's ~ 23's). Most of these kids grew up in suburban sheltered environments and have never handled a gun. I talk to them about the history of the country, the importance of the 2A, the NRA and how through propaganda, the Left (worldwide) has managed to brainwash the sheeple that we don't have to fear the .gov or that we don't need guns.

    This is how we make sure we create a new generation of gun owners and advocates of the B.O.R./2A.

    As many of us as possible need to get instructor training and instructional materials. We can set up airsoft ranges in our living rooms with a blanket to teach safe gunhandling and marksmanship. We need to be ambassadors and educators and make the most of whatever opprotunities we get to introduce new shooters.
     

    AwesomeBill

    Awesome Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    261
    Westminster
    As many of us as possible need to get instructor training and instructional materials. We can set up airsoft ranges in our living rooms with a blanket to teach safe gunhandling and marksmanship. We need to be ambassadors and educators and make the most of whatever opprotunities we get to introduce new shooters.

    Yes, Yes, Yes!

    The antis are trying to "norm" firearms out of the culture. So we need to "norm" them in. Two generations ago, most every boy learned about firearms from hunting with his father (or uncles). Or from the Boy Scouts. Firearms were part of the culture. Even if a family didn't have any, they sure knew a half dozen who did.

    So lets do what we can so that our children - boys and girls - look at firearms the same way our grandparents did. Tools. Very, very important tools, but just tools.

    My wife and I are working towards becoming actual certified instructors. But until then, we are ambassadors.

    We'll be in Annapolis again this session. But the real work is the rest of the year.
     

    jimbobborg

    Oddball caliber fan
    Aug 2, 2010
    17,112
    Northern Virginia
    Yes, Yes, Yes!

    The antis are trying to "norm" firearms out of the culture. So we need to "norm" them in. Two generations ago, most every boy learned about firearms from hunting with his father (or uncles). Or from the Boy Scouts. Firearms were part of the culture. Even if a family didn't have any, they sure knew a half dozen who did.

    So lets do what we can so that our children - boys and girls - look at firearms the same way our grandparents did. Tools. Very, very important tools, but just tools.

    My wife and I are working towards becoming actual certified instructors. But until then, we are ambassadors.

    We'll be in Annapolis again this session. But the real work is the rest of the year.

    But half the people here call open carriers various and sundry names. I open carry on occasion, and I find that some folks here are a bit disingenuous when talking about it.
     

    hvymax

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Apr 19, 2010
    14,011
    Dentsville District 28
    But half the people here call open carriers various and sundry names. I open carry on occasion, and I find that some folks here are a bit disingenuous when talking about it.

    BGO's are afraid to attract attention to themselves. Alinsky's methods work if you have the balls to use them. It takes coordination and planning and enough people to pull it off. Enthusiasm can be contagious as can cowardice. Almost all of the concealed carry victories recently started with open carry movements and lawsuits.
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    not the direction i expected this thread to go.

    but there is certainly a truth all should be able to agree on. hiding gun inthe background and not talking about them at all DOES NOT help our case. it does not make new gun owners, it does not help people to be less fearful of them. people are naturally more fearful of the unknown than something they see every day.
     

    AwesomeBill

    Awesome Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    261
    Westminster
    But half the people here call open carriers various and sundry names. I open carry on occasion, and I find that some folks here are a bit disingenuous when talking about it.

    BGOS in my opinion. Just an example of the antis' "norming" at work.

    Now, pragmatically, there are times when certain actions cause more harm than good. Open carry in Montana, won't get a second glance. Open carry in NOVA, might have to talk to cops.

    I understand why people on our side are not a fan of open carry. I don't agree with them, but I can understand it.

    This is why we need to work on our "norming" of the culture. Lets make it so that open carry anywhere in the country is a non-event. Unfortunately, that will require way more than just a bunch of people open carrying. It will take a generation (or more) of us working on every level to get the 2a restored in our culture.
     

    smores

    Creepy-Ass Cracker
    Feb 27, 2007
    13,493
    Falls Church
    BGOS in my opinion. Just an example of the antis' "norming" at work.

    Now, pragmatically, there are times when certain actions cause more harm than good. Open carry in Montana, won't get a second glance. Open carry in NOVA, might have to talk to cops.

    I understand why people on our side are not a fan of open carry. I don't agree with them, but I can understand it.

    This is why we need to work on our "norming" of the culture. Lets make it so that open carry anywhere in the country is a non-event. Unfortunately, that will require way more than just a bunch of people open carrying. It will take a generation (or more) of us working on every level to get the 2a restored in our culture.

    I've OC'd a pistol dozens of times in NoVA and not had issues, I've eveb walked past Fairfax County Cops and gotten a nod here and there.

    Now I don't strap my MP5 clone with mags clipped together and walk down to Starbucks...

    Si vis pacem, para bellvm.
     

    AwesomeBill

    Awesome Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    261
    Westminster
    I've OC'd a pistol dozens of times in NoVA and not had issues, I've eveb walked past Fairfax County Cops and gotten a nod here and there.

    Now I don't strap my MP5 clone with mags clipped together and walk down to Starbucks...

    Si vis pacem, para bellvm.

    Awesome! I'm glad my example was incorrect in your experience. I was going with some 2nd and 3rd hand stories I heard. It's good to hear your first hand stories.
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    Awesome! I'm glad my example was incorrect in your experience. I was going with some 2nd and 3rd hand stories I heard. It's good to hear your first hand stories.

    Its about how its done and why.

    Right now we need to take a less in your face approach. If OC does that fine, if not then we need to suit the message to the audience. What matters is that it works, not some preconceived idea of the 'right way'.

    I think the Op's story indicates that a less in your face approach in Howard county may be in order, as apposed to say Carroll county.


    We are just getting started, lets start small ans work out to OC if needed.
     

    AwesomeBill

    Awesome Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    261
    Westminster
    not the direction i expected this thread to go.

    but there is certainly a truth all should be able to agree on. hiding gun inthe background and not talking about them at all DOES NOT help our case. it does not make new gun owners, it does not help people to be less fearful of them. people are naturally more fearful of the unknown than something they see every day.

    Some pragmatism as we continue this fight is called for. The power brokers in this state are Antis. They will, and have, set the tone for this conversation, and it is skewed against us.

    We absolutely do need to talk and spread our message. We just can't be bulls in a china shop.
     

    kohburn

    Resident MacGyver
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2008
    6,796
    PAX NAS / CP MCAS
    Some pragmatism as we continue this fight is called for. The power brokers in this state are Antis. They will, and have, set the tone for this conversation, and it is skewed against us.

    We absolutely do need to talk and spread our message. We just can't be bulls in a china shop.

    I'm a big fan of tact, but unless someone is making us all look like raving loons then i'm ok with their lack of it.

    OC is not a matter of tact. (thought i am not a fan of the OC of rifles into starbucks, that didn't win any friends)

    soap boxing and yelling at strangers would be.
     

    AwesomeBill

    Awesome Member
    Apr 24, 2009
    261
    Westminster
    Its about how its done and why.

    Right now we need to take a less in your face approach. If OC does that fine, if not then we need to suit the message to the audience. What matters is that it works, not some preconceived idea of the 'right way'.

    I think the Op's story indicates that a less in your face approach in Howard county may be in order, as apposed to say Carroll county.


    We are just getting started, lets start small ans work out to OC if needed.

    Oh god yes. This state isn't even close to being ready for the OC discussion. That would backfire on us something bad right now.

    We have to tailor our messages to the audience. We are selling our ideas.

    Not that Carroll County is a cakewalk....

    I was in my LGS when a generic FUDD came in to get a soon-to-be-banned naughty gun. He proceeded to tell me that he didn't mind all of the paperwork, and background checks, and waiting period. Because it was keeping the guns out of the wrong hands. And we just needed to close the gun show loophole and take care of these straw purchases. Dead serious.

    I wanted to slap the guy. But I didn't. I wasn't even rude, although I almost bit off my tongue. Instead, I took a deep breath, and engaged him. Pointed out that all of these hoops didn't actually decrease crime. And straw purchases are almost never prosecuted. And that there was no thing as a "gun show loophole".

    Did any of it sink in? Don't know. Might have wasted my breath. Or maybe it did start some wheels turning.

    I'll try again with the next Fudd though. And the one after that.
     

    Brooklyn

    I stand with John Locke.
    Jan 20, 2013
    13,095
    Plan D? Not worth the hassle.
    Oh god yes. This state isn't even close to being ready for the OC discussion. That would backfire on us something bad right now.

    We have to tailor our messages to the audience. We are selling our ideas.

    Not that Carroll County is a cakewalk....

    I was in my LGS when a generic FUDD came in to get a soon-to-be-banned naughty gun. He proceeded to tell me that he didn't mind all of the paperwork, and background checks, and waiting period. Because it was keeping the guns out of the wrong hands. And we just needed to close the gun show loophole and take care of these straw purchases. Dead serious.

    I wanted to slap the guy. But I didn't. I wasn't even rude, although I almost bit off my tongue. Instead, I took a deep breath, and engaged him. Pointed out that all of these hoops didn't actually decrease crime. And straw purchases are almost never prosecuted. And that there was no thing as a "gun show loophole".

    Did any of it sink in? Don't know. Might have wasted my breath. Or maybe it did start some wheels turning.

    I'll try again with the next Fudd though. And the one after that.


    Ask them why. Mostly they are repeating nonsense in order to sound 'reasonable'.


    Say "Really? We have all these things and Baltimore is still a war zone-- I think that raises a doubts in my mind --- how about you? Can you tell why all this stuff is not working and yet we need more of it? "

    They will proceed to make your case themselves. Most of these guys just don't want to be thought of as holding extreme views. make it safe form them to think and they will surprise you.. :)
     

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