HBAR vs. govt profile rules

Bob A said:

It's fascinating to view Maryland's deliberately confusing and ridiculous gun laws, with aspects that are basically unenforced, and probably unenforceable - at least until we go Full Weimar - become such extensively discussed topics.

The GA puts the Fear into every law-abiding gun owner, and at the same time refuses to enforce the gun laws, or for that matter most of the laws, against the Protected Thug Classes. ATV flash mobs blocking the streets and intimidating the locals; Squeegee Bois shaking down the motorists; streetcorner Pharmacists and their enforcers; illegal immigrant rapists and child molesters; they all seem to get a pass. You can't even talk about them or you are branded a skinhead racist fanatic.

Such a cool place to live!

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holesonpaper said:

In my opinion, I agree. With a pre-2013 lower you can do as you please. However if it started as a rifle, the only thing you can’t do is build a pistol. If you want short, you must SBR following the post 2013 length restriction (or whatever restrictions at the time of form 1).

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Bob A said:

It's fascinating to view Maryland's deliberately confusing and ridiculous gun laws, with aspects that are basically unenforced, and probably unenforceable - at least until we go Full Weimar - become such extensively discussed topics...


...Such a cool place to live!

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outrider58 said:

Frankly Bob, I think we give the GA way too much credit for the confusion. From most evidence I've witnessed, these laws are confusing because they were generally drafted out of ignorance. Subterfuge or stupidity? Either way, they serve the purpose, don't they?

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outrider58 said:

Was there a difference between the two, paperworkwise, before the ban? I truly don't know...

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outrider58 said:

Was there a difference between the two, paperworkwise, before the ban? I truly don't know...

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danb said:

Yes, pre-Oct-2013, an "enumerated" rifle (those that were banned) would have been "regulated" aka 77r.

This is how AR15 lowers got to be 77r.

So... pre-Oct-2013 AR15 lowers that were sold cash and carry (HBAR) would not have been registered.

To add even further to the confusion, according to (legend? history?) what was considered HBAR pre-2013 was not... errr ... consistent. Some FFLs would only sell a true Colt HBAR cash and carry. Others would sell anything if it had .75" at the gas block. Others would sell... anything.

The reality is... I have never encountered the non-HBAR Crimes Unit and I suspect there isnt one. So if you sneak an M4 upper on a lower no one will look at you even sideways let alone caliper your barrel. Of course, dont do that.

I think that the non-HBAR crime is something that they charge you with if you have committed other crimes like trying to protect your heroin stash with your government profile AK14. Or selling unregistered machine guns. And thats right before they let you out on bail where you go on to commit even more crimes like killing witnesses.


The law in MD is only confusing for people who try to follow it. For the criminals (and Maryland is like top 5 in crime and murder among the 50 states)... its easy not to follow the law.

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Mark75H said:

Bail, what bail? This is Marylandistan

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Art3 said:

I agree with danb's assessment. Sometime between the sunset of the Clinton ban and before 2013, I was AR shopping. There were two carbines on a table at a gun show that were identical, except for the little barrel cutout...same price too. The vendor said, "This one you can walk out with today. That one requires pistol paperwork and you can pick it up in a week." I walked out with one that day. It was 4473'ed but not 77r'ed. Somewhere this forum told me that I couldn't put a non-Hbar barrel on it because it was not 77r'ed.

The extra stupid part of my story is that it is a Bushmaster...so it's already labelled (erroneously or not) as an "assault long gun" on the naughty list. It seems silly that I can't put an upper that would make my "assault long gun" into an "assault long gun" onto my "assault long gun"...but MD . Can't have a "double assault long gun," I guess.

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I got a 37mm launcher on my banned Bushy

erwos said:

There's no ban on possessing high caps. There is definitely a ban on possessing non-HBAR AR-15s. That ban has exceptions to it in the form of grandfathering. It is not the same situation at all.

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outrider58 said:

I think Pow Pow's point is, no, you don't(if I'm not mistaken).

IMHO, everyone's worrying about superfluous sh!t. We shouldn't even be discussing this in public(I was discussing this in private. They through me in public!).

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RoadDawg said:

Assuming that you have proof of purchase dated prior to 10/01/13...

Lowers purchased prior to the 2013 law change are not barred from use with non HBAR uppers.

The lower, being the serialized component, IS the firearm. Therefore, attaching a non HBAR upper to it is not banned.

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kalister1 said:

There is only a ban on NON-H-Bar Ar-15's depending on when you purchased it. There are lot's of NON H-Bar AR-15's in Maryland.
There is currently a BAN on Standard Capacity Magazines depending on WHEN/WHERE you purchased it.
It is the EXACT same thing!

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esqappellate said:

So, are you sure about that? I am not. The actual statute is attached. Here are the relevant provisions:

(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(1) transport an assault weapon into the State; or
(2) possess, sell, offer to sell, transfer, purchase, or receive an assault weapon.

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(3) A person who lawfully possessed, has a purchase order for, or completed an application to purchase an assault long gun or a copycat weapon before October 1, 2013, may:
(i) possess and transport the assault long gun or copycat weapon

So, here are the relevant questions. (1) Did the OP possess an "assault long gun" prior to Oct. 1, 2013. It would appears that the answer is NO (because it was an HBAR and thus cash and carry, no 77R process, not registered). (2). If the OP slapped a non-HBAR upper onto the receiver after Oct. 1, 2013, would he then "possess" an assault long gun? It would appear the answer would be YES (it would be at least a "copy" if not a "copycat"). (3) If the answer to question (2) is "yes" then did the OP possess that assault long gun that he just created prior to Oct. 1, 2013. Answer would be, of course, NO (because it was then an HBAR). Conclusion would be pretty obvious to me. (Hint: Do not pass go). This is not legal advice. If you want legal advice (always a good idea), consult your lawyer.

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kalister1 said:

There is only a ban on NON-H-Bar Ar-15's depending on when you purchased it. There are lot's of NON H-Bar AR-15's in Maryland.
There is currently a BAN on Standard Capacity Magazines depending on WHEN/WHERE you purchased it.
It is the EXACT same thing!

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erwos said:

I suggest you read how the law is phrased for both of these things, because it is not at all the same thing.

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kalister1 said:

It all depends on When / Where it was purchased to determine if it is Legal or Not. If the Magazine was purchased in Maryland yesterday it is illegal.
If the Rifle was purchased in Maryland the very first day it was available to be sold and converted the very next day is it illegal now?

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Mark75H said:

No, the sale was the crime, not the possession.

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erwos said:

Realistically, the MSP could never prove it either way, but then again, if they charged you, YOU would be the one to have to prove it in court, since they'd be starting with "we found you with a banned gun". Food for thought.

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