Suppressed SBR

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  • mh53pvlow

    MPDC3291
    Mar 28, 2013
    29
    Montgomery Village
    I have a 10.5 SBR and I am looking to get a suppressor. A few of the ones I am looking at offer suppressed BCG's. My question is has anyone run a rifle with the regular BCG then the suppressed? Is there enough difference in performance to make it a necessity? Thanks in advance for any help.
     

    Jakedasnake

    Active Member
    Aug 11, 2012
    252
    I have a 10.5 SBR and I am looking to get a suppressor. A few of the ones I am looking at offer suppressed BCG's. My question is has anyone run a rifle with the regular BCG then the suppressed? Is there enough difference in performance to make it a necessity? Thanks in advance for any help.



    There absolutely is a necessity to utilize what would be deemed as an EBCG/ Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group. Far less gas blowback in ones face while firing suppressed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Unfortunately just stating that it’s a 10.5” SBR isn’t enough information to help you. Did you build it yourself, buy it, what brand, what caliber, etc? Which suppressor you purchase will strongly influence how your firearm reacts as well.

    Other variables:
    Barrel gas port size
    Buffer weight
    Buffer spring
    Buffer tube length (A5, normal, PDW?)
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    I would say put your money in an adjustable gas block.

    I like the SLR gas blocks that uses set screws. This one is for a 0.750" diameter barrel at the gas port: https://slrrifleworks.com/sentry-7-set-screw-adjustable-gas-block-450/

    Get a $32 dimpling jig https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/SLR-AR-15-Gas-Block-Dimpling-Jig-750-p/slr-dj7.htm and a 5/32" drill bit from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AESUDU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Total cost $160-ish with jig and drill bit
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    There absolutely is a necessity to utilize what would be deemed as an EBCG/ Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group. Far less gas blowback in ones face while firing suppressed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

    Don’t forget the adjustable gas block as an option.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Don’t forget the adjustable gas block as an option.
    I tend to favor adjustable gas blocks on suppressed firearms.

    I’m hoping the OP will explain what he mean when he says “suppressed BCGs”. Because if we are talking about something like the new surefire bcg and buffer, then my opinion will be different from something like an adjustable bolt carrier group or gas key. Something like the bootleg or gemtech.

    Actually just to be up front: I don’t care for adjustable bolt carriers. Glad they exist on the market, but don’t like how they work, especially as a lefty. They redirect gas from your face (sort of), but pressurize it and increase port noise pretty badly per the design lead at Dead Air. I get that a lot of us suppress supersonic centerfire cartridges in semi auto rifles and most of the time those rifles will never truly be hearing safe. But I’d still rather have the 140+ dB noise exit the firearm farther away from my face than the ejection port.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947

    mh53pvlow

    MPDC3291
    Mar 28, 2013
    29
    Montgomery Village
    Yes it is one of the suppressors I am looking at. To the right of the photo and under the price there are three options and one is for a 5.56 Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. That is what I am asking is a necessity? Thanks all.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Yes it is one of the suppressors I am looking at. To the right of the photo and under the price there are three options and one is for a 5.56 Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. That is what I am asking is a necessity? Thanks all.

    Like FBI, I prefer an adjustable gas block.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Yes it is one of the suppressors I am looking at. To the right of the photo and under the price there are three options and one is for a 5.56 Gemtech suppressed bolt carrier. That is what I am asking is a necessity? Thanks all.
    Gotcha. You’re talking about this:

    https://www.gemtech.com/gemtech-5-56-suppressed-bolt-carrier.html

    Then my answer is that I prefer to have a tuned gas system that prevents excess gas from getting back to the bolt carrier. The easiest answer is to install either an adjustable gas block or a BRT gas restriction device, either gas tube or insert. The more difficult but probably better answer is to use a barrel with a properly sized gas port for suppressed use, something like sionics or triarc.

    The m4-2000 is a good can. I have one on my work gun, which is a 10.5” geissele. It is a bit gassy though, and I’ve had malfunctions with hotter ammo (m855a1 and the new improved 70gr tsx red tip load). Would recommend you try an H3 buffer with a tubbs 5.56 flatwire spring first if you’re not willing to mess with your gas block. Still kind of a bandaid, but a lot less expensive than a suppressed bolt carrier. As I said the suppressed bolt carrier drastically increases port noise. Regardless of what you go with, some kind of gas busting charging handle (raptor sd, pri gas buster, geissele charging handle, Armageddon, etc) will help keep gas out of your face.
     
    Last edited:

    niftyvt

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 21, 2010
    1,891
    Virginia
    I have a 11.5" BCM that I shoot 100% suppressed (Saker 556). I use the gem tech carrier and have many thousands of rounds through it with no problems. I use the stock spring and stock H buffer. It's a good easy option if you dont want to smith on your gun or pay someone to do it for you. I dont really notice any difference in gas to the face which makes sense since it's still the same amount getting to carrier. Overall gun shoots great with it.

    I have a shot out upper that I plan to send to D.Wilson to get rebarreled (non NFA length because currently I dont have one) and I will probably get an adjustable gas block put on that one while it's there as it will be shot with and with out a can.
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    I also have a Saker 556 on my home defense SBR, a 10.3 Daniel Defense.

    Personally, I avoid adjustable gas blocks or venting BCG's. I run a Sprinco Blue and a Spikes Tactical ST- T3 buffer and it shoots like a dream. I use a Radian gas mitigating charging handle also, but personally I think those "gas busting" charging handles are nothing but smoke and mirrors. Save your $ for other stuff.

    There is definitely some blow back, but not much to my face at all.

    I think if you are running a suppressor it is important to consider how the extra pressure effects your bolt lock time. I would definitely recommend an H2 buffer in most cases if running suppressed.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I have a 11.5" BCM that I shoot 100% suppressed (Saker 556). I use the gem tech carrier and have many thousands of rounds through it with no problems. I use the stock spring and stock H buffer. It's a good easy option if you dont want to smith on your gun or pay someone to do it for you. I dont really notice any difference in gas to the face which makes sense since it's still the same amount getting to carrier. Overall gun shoots great with it.
    Great point. In spite of the drawbacks that I have mentioned, the suppressed carrier will work to mitigate the effect increased back pressure from a can has on your firearm. How much depends on how gassy the suppressor is, gas port size, etc.

    I know ARs are often advertised as legos, but it takes experience and knowledge to get the operating system timed for optimal function. It is a fairly forgiving system, but there’s a reason places like SOTAR get booked up a year out, and gunsmiths like Clandestine (handle for head SOTAR instructor on MDS) get offered more work than they can possibly accept.

    As to suppressor choice: One thing that is noticeable with a heavier suppressor design like the m4-2000 vs newer gen light weight 5.56 specific cans like the YHM turbo is that it acts as a better heat sink. It has more mass, so it won’t heat up quite as fast. It will mitigate mirage for longer, and take longer to heat up to the point that you could accidentally burninate something by touching the can to it. Say, your hand or your pants leg. Or your rifle case. Or your bench.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I also have a Saker 556 on my home defense SBR, a 10.3 Daniel Defense.

    Personally, I avoid adjustable gas blocks or venting BCG's. I run a Sprinco Blue and a Spikes Tactical ST- T3 buffer and it shoots like a dream. I use a Radian gas mitigating charging handle also, but personally I think those "gas busting" charging handles are nothing but smoke and mirrors. Save your $ for other stuff.

    There is definitely some blow back, but not much to my face at all.

    I think if you are running a suppressor it is important to consider how the extra pressure effects your bolt lock time. I would definitely recommend an H2 buffer in most cases if running suppressed.
    I don’t know how PSA sizes their gas ports, but find it unlikely that they will be running the Crane spec like Daniel Defense typically does. OP may have significantly more gas to deal with than you do.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Because I clearly haven’t responded to this thread enough, I will also add that the information I have learned from Clandestine’s YouTube channel has forced me to reconsider my default position of “adjustable gas block all the things.” Based on issues he has demonstrated and discussed, I have purchased spare parts to rebuild any adjustable gas blocks I have on hand. When the time comes to replace barrels in my hard use rifles, I am undecided if I will continue using adjustable gas blocks + maintain spare parts, or purchase barrels with appropriate gas port sizes for dedicated suppressed use, and use standard gas blocks.

    Eugene Stoner sure was a smart man.
     

    niftyvt

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 21, 2010
    1,891
    Virginia
    Because I clearly haven’t responded to this thread enough, I will also add that the information I have learned from Clandestine’s YouTube channel has forced me to reconsider my default position of “adjustable gas block all the things.” Based on issues he has demonstrated and discussed, I have purchased spare parts to rebuild any adjustable gas blocks I have on hand. When the time comes to replace barrels in my hard use rifles, I am undecided if I will continue using adjustable gas blocks + maintain spare parts, or purchase barrels with appropriate gas port sizes for dedicated suppressed use, and use standard gas blocks.

    Eugene Stoner sure was a smart man.

    I am also going back and forth with my upper rebuild. Might just go standard gas block and another adjustable carrier. Or just not mess with either and get a OSS can instead.. Well I plan on getting a 30 cal OSS can anyways so . . .yeah I cant make up my mind. :lol2:
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I run both, albeit not on the same gun. I do prefer the ease of the Bootleg BCG in terms of being able to quickly set it to suppressed (or one of the other two middle settings). AGBs work better for me when I'm using the same ammo type and consistently running suppressed or unsuppressed (but not switching back and forth), ignoring the piston GBs which tend to be somewhat easier to switch around (and, IMHO, are the best of both worlds). Does someone make a DI AGB that's like the Sig 556 or AUG gas block, where you can toollessly change between gas settings? That would be my top pick if it were reliable.
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    I have a 10.5 inch SBR with a dead air sandman S. I'm using a standard bolt. They say bolts like the surefire enhanced or LMT enhanced do offer performance benefits and I have looked at purchasing one but I have not been able to. Not sure I could recommend any other "suppressor" bolts. Do some more research on your suppressors, not everything is about dB reduction. Back pressure, first round pop, etc etc etc all matter too. Suppressor design matters a lot, some of them heavily increase back pressure, others do it much less. A few dB here or there won't matter, and that's not what I would go chasing. Just make sure you have a good CH.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    I run both, albeit not on the same gun. I do prefer the ease of the Bootleg BCG in terms of being able to quickly set it to suppressed (or one of the other two middle settings). AGBs work better for me when I'm using the same ammo type and consistently running suppressed or unsuppressed (but not switching back and forth), ignoring the piston GBs which tend to be somewhat easier to switch around (and, IMHO, are the best of both worlds). Does someone make a DI AGB that's like the Sig 556 or AUG gas block, where you can toollessly change between gas settings? That would be my top pick if it were reliable.

    Agreed, problem with DI, especially 5.56 is the excess gas powering it, and the gas blowing out of the ejection port and just about everywhere else in the receiver. Heavy springs and buffers can help slow the action enough that a can with mild backpressure will be OK, especially on barrels with conservative gas port sizing AKA Ballistic Advantage. A thicker charging handle helps with the little puff of gas that comes out with standard handles aimed right at your eye. Gas blocks reduce gas to the entire system, so you can tune it to run with most builds, and sometimes can find a sweet spot where it will run unsuppressed, and still limit gas suppressed. I've had the best luck on "working" builds with H2(4.6oz) buffers and tuning about 2 clicks past "bolt lock back" unsuppressed on an SLR or SA adjustable. With a Raptor charging handle, it will be a little more gassy suppressed, but is reliable and comfortable in both suppressed and unsuppressed without tuning the gas further. If you tune down to just enough gas to run suppressed, there will be less port bark, blowback and recoil, especially if you tune for a lighter std 3oz buffer, but it will choke unsuppressed. Only tool-free gas blocks I know of are the Noveske switchblock(3 fixed positions only) and the Seekins select adjustable, it's a toggle that allows you to lock in a setting, and flip the lever to basically crank a couple more clicks, no real way to set both modes independently. Seems like it would be easy enough to just have a knurled screw option for most click adjustable blocks.

    I'm not a fan of piston kits for no particular reason, but suppressing is a good reason, my AK runs fine either way, venting excess gas out the sides of the piston tube away from my face(even if it is louder than tuned DI). My KT RDB is probably the most user friendly suppressor host, adjustment knob from the factory, can be tuned easily to run both ways with a single setting, and excess gas is vented primarily downward in the rear ejection port, and a little around the front block. I have looked into a couple of the newer piston kits and uppers, just haven't built one yet, as I messed with the earlier piston kits enough to see a lot of issues, and am not sure if they were truly resolved.
     

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