Handgun Stopping Power? Not So Much

Mr.Blue · Jun 19, 2018

I don’t know what caliber he was shot with, but I’m starting to think about switching my night stand gun from a .45acp handgun to an M4. I never was under any illusion that handguns were a death ray. That said, I would have put at least 3 rounds in him. Poor cops have to worry about how they’ll be judged, especially with an unarmed (I assume he was unarmed) black male.

https://nypost.com/video/gunshot-to-the-stomach-doesnt-faze-suspect/

CelticBiggie · Jun 19, 2018

And people wonder why officers fire multiple rounds..... because of cases like this.

Alea Jacta Est · Jun 19, 2018

Clearly no interference with the CNS. Shame.

If you’re gonna aim that low, break the pelvic girdle.

If you’re gonna shoot, then give him at least three. Zipper is good.

20/20 hindsight is easy for us. Glad the officers lived to laugh about it later.

I thought maybe the perp disarmed the Officer. Weapon retention looks like a fail at first blush...

Mr.Blue · Jun 19, 2018

Nnztg8r said:
20/20 hindsight is easy for us. Glad the officers lived to laugh about it later.
..

I’m not second guessing the officer. I’m speculating that he only shot once because of all the media scrutiny. I feel badly for LE.

ClutchyMcClutcherson · Jun 19, 2018

This is a great training video. The way the courts have ruled now, LEO’s are being trained that each bullet is a separate use of force, rather than all one incident. It makes it pretty difficult because after one shot there’s hardly any time to access the situation.

danb · Jun 19, 2018

There is no such thing as a death ray. I've seen deer live after being hit square on in the liver at short range with a slug. Bullets fail to expand sometimes, and adrenaline (and for humans, drugs) is a funny thing. M4 is no guarantee either. People survive rifle woulds to the stomach, or at least live long enough to potentially put a hurting on you.

Mr.Blue · Jun 19, 2018

danb said:
There is no such thing as a death ray. I've seen deer live after being hit square on in the liver at short range with a slug. Bullets fail to expand sometimes, and adrenaline (and for humans, drugs) is a funny thing. M4 is no guarantee either. People survive rifle woulds to the stomach, or at least live long enough to potentially put a hurting on you.

I know, but a 5.56 will do a better job than .45acp and will be quicker with follow-up shots. I’ve been hesitant to use one of my M4s because of the sound, especially with the brakes I have on them. I hate the idea of having to put muffs on. It’s just an added step.

Bisleyfan44 · Jun 19, 2018

Mr.Blue said:
I know, but a 5.56 will do a better job than .45acp and will be quicker with follow-up shots. I’ve been hesitant to use one of my M4s because of the sound, especially with the brakes I have on them. I hate the idea of having to put muffs on. It’s just an added step.

Plus having to defend using an evil "assault weapon" to the jury/judge. I find myself extremely hesitant to use an AR in a self defense scenario, esp in this state.

MaxVO2 · Jun 19, 2018

Mr.Blue said:
I don’t know what caliber he was shot with, but I’m starting to think about switching my night stand gun from a .45acp handgun to an M4. I never was under any illusion that handguns were a death ray. That said, I would have put at least 3 rounds in him. Poor cops have to worry about how they’ll be judged, especially with an unarmed (I assume he was unarmed) black male.

https://nypost.com/video/gunshot-to-the-stomach-doesnt-faze-suspect/

****As someone mentioned, no CNS damage. Also, I'd like to see where exactly he was shot. It's possible the perp got lucky and it hit the side of his abdominal area and simply went through fatty tissue and out the back. If he had been hit in the pelvis he would have probably dropped like a stone. Obviously, CNS damage would also have dropped him immediately, regardless of whatever drug, or adrenaline, etc..

I feel sorry for the cops that they have to hesitate on shooting someone clearly trying to hurt them. Plenty of people are killed every year with just fists.

Biggfoot44 · Jun 19, 2018

Shot placement and/ or good drugs in the suspect.

Refer back to concept of shoot until no longer a threat .

ClutchyMcClutcherson · Jun 19, 2018

Biggfoot44 said:
Shot placement and/ or good drugs in the suspect.

Refer back to concept of shoot until no longer a threat .

The officer shot and the suspect fell. If he would have kept on shooting, he would have had to justify every one of those rounds entering a falling or fallen suspect. And with the way things are going now that’d be a tough sell. The guy being alive isn’t a threat.

I’m not disagreeing with you that follow up shots would have ended this before another physical assault. I’m just saying the way the courts have ruled with deadly force I don’t think it would have been justified. Or at the very least, it would have caused all kinds of problems.

Biggfoot44 · Jun 19, 2018

Now that I watched instead of read link -

Ofc fired, he fell down - initial threat over .

If ( anyone) pops back up , and presents additional threat , then perform indicated response(s) for that threat .

At the time undoubtedly was a wtf moment , but curious as to actual shot placement, and toxicology of the suspect . At the least, from the video, was fired up with adrenaline.

As an object lesson , a useful reminder that no firearm ( or other defensive tool ) is a magic ray , or works instantly every time.

onedash · Jun 20, 2018

When there are that many officers involved and still have issues after putting a bullet in him, what do they (liberals) expect will happen if he attacked one person with one concealed firearm (presumably with less training) and no back up. What time do the protests start for cops shooting an unarmed boy on his way to church?

DC-W · Jun 20, 2018

Counter point:
http://americanshootingjournal.com/9mm-handgun-puts-down-bear/

Anything can happen.

For perspective, this is worth a watch:

outrider58 · Jun 20, 2018

Biggfoot44 said:
Shot placement and/ or good drugs in the suspect.

Refer back to concept of shoot until no longer a threat .

On a whole, correct. BUT, in this case, the officer was lucky to get one shot off with a hit. The game really took a turn when the perp got back up and charged the other officer taking away any thoughts of a follow up shot at that point (9mm AED would have been tempting though...).

This was not an intruder in your house threatening your life. In that case, stitch away. I will. Police, unfortunately, have to operate under a different set of guidelines(varied depending on municipality). Look what Cali is now considering. That state is about to get a lot more dangerous, for the citizens as well as for the cops.

Handgun Stopping Power? Not So Much

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Mr.Blue

Living In A Bizarro World

CelticBiggie

Active Member

Alea Jacta Est

Extinguished member

Mr.Blue

Living In A Bizarro World

ClutchyMcClutcherson

Active Member

danb

dont be a dumbass

Mr.Blue

Living In A Bizarro World

Bisleyfan44

Ultimate Member

MaxVO2

Ultimate Member

Biggfoot44

Ultimate Member

ClutchyMcClutcherson

Active Member

Biggfoot44

Ultimate Member

onedash

Ultimate Member

DC-W

Ultimate Member

outrider58

Eats Bacon Raw

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Share this page