How To Document AR Pistol Build?

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  • Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,230
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    According to the law you must build an "other" lower in a pistol configuration first to avoid issues later with regards to switching back and forth between rifle and pistol. How does one document that it is originally a pistol?

    *Yes I searched. No I didn't find anything. Thank you to the first person that can link to a thread where this has already been answered. :o
     

    tommy gunn

    Active Member
    Apr 7, 2012
    813
    calvert county
    Take pictures with a time and date stamp on it of the pistol build. Make sure you can see the serial numbers in the pics. That's about the only thing I can think of.
     

    ohen cepel

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 2, 2011
    4,509
    Where they send me.
    May not help your question but I would think about buying a lower marked pistol to help make it clear from the start. Not needed, but a bit more insurance in my mind and helps if you ever go to sell it down the road that it was always a pistol.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Take pictures with a time and date stamp on it of the pistol build. Make sure you can see the serial numbers in the pics. That's about the only thing I can think of.
    I did this, sort of with some of my pre ban builds.. I took pics, sent them to myself via registered mail and put the unopened envelopes in my safe. If I ever have to prove it, I will let the judge open the mail.. lol

    I finished my own lowers, so there is no record to refer back to for a transfer, hopefully this will cover my kiester in a pinch.

    I doubt I ever will need this, unless I go rogue and start shooting people and that is very unlikely.. :lol2:
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    If you buy and transfer the lower as a pistol, you're stuck with a pistol are you not?

    I'd think transferring as an O gives yo the option of building it into an HBAR later if you want. And if Engage wins their lawsuit against MSP and it's no longer deemed a copycat, you could not SBR it either.

    IANAL
     
    Last edited:

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium
    A lower is "other" even if it is a complete lower. It becomes a pistol or rifle when you put a barrel on it.

    Build as a pistol first and you can later build ir into a HBAR rifle or a SBR(with the proper tax stamp)

    Build as a HBAR first and it cannot be built into a pistol later. With the proper tax stamp, it can be built into a SBR.

    You do not need to document rifle or pistol first. Just be sure you can answer honstly if ever asked (you will not be)
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    If first a pistol you can make it later into a rifle. And then back into a pistol.

    If a rifle first, it must stay a rifle (or SBR).

    I have a pistol buffer setup to have made both my lowers into pistols (with 10.5" upper), before converting one to a rifle. I will KEEP the pistol buffer, even when the other becomes an SBR.
     

    Markp

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 22, 2008
    9,392
    If you buy and transfer the lower as a pistol, you're stuck with a psitol are you not?

    I'd think transferring as an O gives yo the option of building it into an HBAR later if you want. And if Engage wins their lawsuit against MSP and it's no longer deemed a copycat, you could not SBR it either.

    IANAL

    No, Pistol can become rifle and revert back to pistol as of the last ATF interpretation I read (a while ago). Subject to the whim of the ATF.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    No, Pistol can become rifle and revert back to pistol as of the last ATF interpretation I read (a while ago). Subject to the whim of the ATF.
    Yes, subject, as always, to change, but they have been consistent that you can build a rifle from a pistol, but never a pistol from a rifle..
     

    awptickes

    Member
    Jun 26, 2011
    1,516
    N. Of Perryville
    Based upon my understanding of the laws, I find this to be true.

    Legal:
    Pistol -> rifle -> pistol
    other -> pistol -> rifle -> pistol
    other/rifle/pistol -> Form 1 -> SBR
    other/pistol -> Form 1 -> AOW

    Not legal (without stamp) [underlined part is the illegal part]:
    other -> rifle -> pistol
    rifle -> pistol
    "H-BAR" rifle -> pistol


    Yes, over simplified, but hopefully this helps people out a little bit.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    Based upon my understanding of the laws, I find this to be true.

    Legal:
    Pistol -> rifle -> pistol
    other -> pistol -> rifle -> pistol
    other/rifle/pistol -> Form 1 -> SBR
    other/pistol -> Form 1 -> AOW

    Not legal (without stamp) [underlined part is the illegal part]:
    other -> rifle -> pistol
    rifle -> pistol
    "H-BAR" rifle -> pistol


    Yes, over simplified, but hopefully this helps people out a little bit.

    excellent summation.

    thank you
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    I did this, sort of with some of my pre ban builds.. I took pics, sent them to myself via registered mail and put the unopened envelopes in my safe. If I ever have to prove it, I will let the judge open the mail.. lol

    I finished my own lowers, so there is no record to refer back to for a transfer, hopefully this will cover my kiester in a pinch.

    I doubt I ever will need this, unless I go rogue and start shooting people and that is very unlikely.. :lol2:

    Careful when using those two words in the same sentence.:lol2:

    You're describing the poor man's copyright. Song writers and inventers have been using them for years but, i'm not sure how well they hold up in court.
     

    Sticky

    Beware of Dog
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 16, 2013
    4,501
    AA Co
    Careful when using those two words in the same sentence.:lol2:

    You're describing the poor man's copyright. Song writers and inventers have been using them for years but, i'm not sure how well they hold up in court.
    You're right, my bad.. lol

    I should know better.. at least 3% of the forum will misinterpret my statement.. :lol2:

    Honestly, I am not worried about having to defend myself in a court of law. I have lived by the rule of law for this long, don't see that changing, unless of course they keep changing the laws and I get grandfathered out.. :rolleyes:
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    You're right, my bad.. lol

    I should know better.. at least 3% of the forum will misinterpret my statement.. :lol2:

    Honestly, I am not worried about having to defend myself in a court of law. I have lived by the rule of law for this long, don't see that changing, unless of course they keep changing the laws and I get grandfathered out.. :rolleyes:

    I would have to agree with you. As for now, not a big issue. Buuuut, things could always cha.........
     

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