Questions on SB 281. Anyone have answers?

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Britt

    Member
    Jul 23, 2013
    4
    Silver Spring
    This may have been asked and answered already and if so I do apologize. Being active duty military and having not purchased a handgun or any other weapon in MD, yet. The way I understand the current pre 01OCT law is I go to the gun store, fill out the MSP paperwork along with the 4473 and wait either 8 days or until the MSP come back and say it's okay for me to pick up my handgun. How will it work after 01OCT assuming they actually issue the new Handgun Qualification License? Will you be able to go into the gun store with your HQL fill out the 4473 pay for your handgun and walk out? Will they still require the MSP paperwork and wait?
    What about those lucky few that are exempt from the HQL (LEO, Military, etc.)?

    Britt
     

    Britt

    Member
    Jul 23, 2013
    4
    Silver Spring
    Thanks mr. h, While I do not doubt your answer that makes no sense at all... but then many of the laws make little sense to me. One would think that after they had gone through the background checks, finger prints, training to get the HQL before you could attempt to purchase a handgun; one would not have to go through most of that yet again when one actually purchased a handgun.
     

    occbrian

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 3, 2013
    4,905
    in a cave
    Thanks mr. h, While I do not doubt your answer that makes no sense at all... but then many of the laws make little sense to me. One would think that after they had gone through the background checks, finger prints, training to get the HQL before you could attempt to purchase a handgun; one would not have to go through most of that yet again when one actually purchased a handgun.

    You'll have to go through it for every single handgun you purchase. If you buy 10 in 1 year, 10 sets of forms, 10 background checks, 10 waiting periods.
     

    DEX

    scruffy-lookin nerfherder
    Aug 16, 2013
    366
    Glen Burnie, MD
    Well, one could obtain the HQL and between then and when a handgun is purchased, be found guilty, or receive PBJ, for a disqualifying crime (for example).
     

    Britt

    Member
    Jul 23, 2013
    4
    Silver Spring
    Dex, again my common sense says that if that were the case MD would revoke the HQL kinda like when you get convicted of drunk driving or accumulate enough points they revoke your driving license. But again, I'm using common sense which I've found isn't very common.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Thanks mr. h, While I do not doubt your answer that makes no sense at all... but then many of the laws make little sense to me. One would think that after they had gone through the background checks, finger prints, training to get the HQL before you could attempt to purchase a handgun; one would not have to go through most of that yet again when one actually purchased a handgun.

    Understood, and no harm no foul.

    But remember...

    Maryland... This beast was rushed through in an opportunistic fervor, and never made sense to begin with.
     
    Feb 28, 2013
    28,953
    Thanks mr. h, While I do not doubt your answer that makes no sense at all... but then many of the laws make little sense to me. One would think that after they had gone through the background checks, finger prints, training to get the HQL before you could attempt to purchase a handgun; one would not have to go through most of that yet again when one actually purchased a handgun.

    I know it's stupid. But the politburo would only see extra redundancy as a potential benefit.

    If streamlining were in any way thought of here it may not have been so intolerable, as in no more background checks after obtaining the HQL.

    But this is Maryland and streamlining isn't what we do when we're trying to pass laws to "protect our children.":rolleyes:
     

    JHE1956

    Active Member
    Apr 16, 2013
    751
    Annapolis
    This may have been asked and answered already and if so I do apologize. Being active duty military and having not purchased a handgun or any other weapon in MD, yet. The way I understand the current pre 01OCT law is I go to the gun store, fill out the MSP paperwork along with the 4473 and wait either 8 days or until the MSP come back and say it's okay for me to pick up my handgun. How will it work after 01OCT assuming they actually issue the new Handgun Qualification License? Will you be able to go into the gun store with your HQL fill out the 4473 pay for your handgun and walk out? Will they still require the MSP paperwork and wait?
    What about those lucky few that are exempt from the HQL (LEO, Military, etc.)?

    Britt

    My understanding that for those of us who are exempt from the HQL requirement (LEO, Active Duty or Retired Military, or purchasing a C&R) is that post October 1 should be no different than before October 1 except there will be fewer choices what we can buy. Everything else remains the same.
     

    daggo66

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 31, 2013
    1,992
    Glen Burnie
    Dex, again my common sense says that if that were the case MD would revoke the HQL kinda like when you get convicted of drunk driving or accumulate enough points they revoke your driving license. But again, I'm using common sense which I've found isn't very common.

    Right there is your problem There is no common sense in MD despite the fact that they consider this a "common sense" gun law.
     

    fabsroman

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 14, 2009
    35,852
    Winfield/Taylorsville in Carroll
    Dex, again my common sense says that if that were the case MD would revoke the HQL kinda like when you get convicted of drunk driving or accumulate enough points they revoke your driving license. But again, I'm using common sense which I've found isn't very common.

    Common sense would tell me that the MSP have nothing in place right not to review ALL HQL license holders on a daily basis to determine if they have become prohibited or not and then revoke the HQL. I believe, but am not 100% sure about this, that SB281 says the MSP shall revoke the HQL of anybody that becomes prohibited.

    Thing is, MSP would essentially have to do a daily background check, just like with Form 77r, on every HQL holder to make sure that they get revoked before the person has the ability to buy another handgun.

    Common sense tells me that the MSP does NOT have the resources to do that. Now, if the MSP had a computer system that could check all 17 databases on its own for every HQL holder on a daily basis, this wouldn't be an issue. However, we all know that the process right now is a manual process.

    So, they are dealing with statistics. After a person receives a HQL, how many handguns will they actually be buying? Mind you, the normal person is not what is reflected on this chat board when it comes to purchasing firearms. A lot of people will buy one, maybe two, handguns during their lifetimes. So, the MSP does one or two Forms 77r for these people over their lifetimes. Much easier than checking the records of every HQL holder on a daily basis.

    Now, if they brought their computer system and background checks into the 21st century, they could meet the "common sense" standard.

    Regarding the 7 day wait period, that is to make sure that nobody goes out and buys a gun in a moment of passion to kill somebody they have an issue with. Again, kind of ridiculous since they would have to have applied for an HQL ahead of time, which could take up to 30 days, and would have most likely bought a handgun after receiving their HQL. So, they would already have a handgun and would not need a cooling off period before going out and murdering somebody with the handgun they already own. Then again, the 7 day wait is probably so MSP can get through the Form 77r. As you can see, that 7 day wait has been working out real well and the MSP are keeping us safe by getting through those Forms 77r in 140 days, about 4 months after firearms are being released to the buyers. BRILLIANT!!!!
     

    UNcommon Arms

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 16, 2011
    332
    Howard County
    Thanks mr. h, While I do not doubt your answer that makes no sense at all... but then many of the laws make little sense to me. One would think that after they had gone through the background checks, finger prints, training to get the HQL before you could attempt to purchase a handgun; one would not have to go through most of that yet again when one actually purchased a handgun.
    Britt, The HQL is just a means to make buying firearms more expensive, more difficult and to discourage the poor and minorities who may not have the means or education to obtain the HQL and purchase a firearm.

    The HQL is also a method to document, track and identify potential gun buyers, to confiscate the guns first they have to know where they are.

    Only regulated firearms will need the &&r's and wait period. You'll be able to buy a 556 H-bar, and AR10 {.308} and others... "over the counter" Go figure. That's the logic of hoplophobics.
     

    splfd

    Member
    Jul 27, 2011
    90
    Unfree State
    Folks another question sort of related to the scope and theme from the OP. If I were to go and put money down on a pistol that the store (FFL) has to order and if the pistol were to arrive after 1 OCT, do I still need to go through all of the HQL requirements? In other words is their any benefit of purchasing today rather than purchasing after 1 OCT? The dealer does not have the pistol in stock and probably won't for many months.

    I do apologize if this was asked before- I know you guys get frustrated when that happens. Thank you for your time and consideration.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,172
    Outside the Gates
    Folks another question sort of related to the scope and theme from the OP. If I were to go and put money down on a pistol that the store (FFL) has to order and if the pistol were to arrive after 1 OCT, do I still need to go through all of the HQL requirements? In other words is their any benefit of purchasing today rather than purchasing after 1 OCT? The dealer does not have the pistol in stock and probably won't for many months.

    I do apologize if this was asked before- I know you guys get frustrated when that happens. Thank you for your time and consideration.

    Its about the most asked question on MDShooters ...

    If delivery of a handgun is taken on or after Oct1, HQL is required for commoners
     

    mtnwisdom

    Active Member
    Sep 9, 2012
    290
    Sparrows Point
    My understanding that for those of us who are exempt from the HQL requirement (LEO, Active Duty or Retired Military, or purchasing a C&R) is that post October 1 should be no different than before October 1 except there will be fewer choices what we can buy. Everything else remains the same.

    Only LEO is exempt from HQL. Active duty WHILE IN PERFORMANCE is exempt.

    LEO, Active, Retired, Honorable Discharge, Current lawful owner, HQL instructor are exempt from TRAINING requirement for HQL...
     

    mtnwisdom

    Active Member
    Sep 9, 2012
    290
    Sparrows Point
    Folks another question sort of related to the scope and theme from the OP. If I were to go and put money down on a pistol that the store (FFL) has to order and if the pistol were to arrive after 1 OCT, do I still need to go through all of the HQL requirements? In other words is their any benefit of purchasing today rather than purchasing after 1 OCT? The dealer does not have the pistol in stock and probably won't for many months.

    I do apologize if this was asked before- I know you guys get frustrated when that happens. Thank you for your time and consideration.

    After Oct 1, HQL is required for transfer for everyone except LEO.

    If you pay pre take the magazines with you now, post OCt 1, you will not get the >10 round mags after Oct 1.
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,849
    Somewhere in MD
    Only LEO is exempt from HQL. Active duty WHILE IN PERFORMANCE is exempt.

    LEO, Active, Retired, Honorable Discharge, Current lawful owner, HQL instructor are exempt from TRAINING requirement for HQL...
    (bold mine)

    After Oct 1, HQL is required for transfer for everyone except LEO.

    If you pay pre take the magazines with you now, post OCt 1, you will not get the >10 round mags after Oct 1.
    (bold mine)

    Active duty in MD, as other states, would not need HQL to purchase. Updated previous thread typo
    Incorrect information. Please see Enrolled SB281, page 27, lines 7 through 22.
    Enrolled SB281 said:
    7 (B) (C) A PERSON MAY PURCHASE, RENT, OR RECEIVE A HANDGUN
    8 ONLY IF THE PERSON:
    9 (1) (I) POSSESSES A VALID HANDGUN QUALIFICATION LICENSE
    10 ISSUED TO THE PERSON BY THE SECRETARY IN ACCORDANCE WITH THIS
    11 SECTION; AND
    12 (II) POSSESSES VALID CREDENTIALS FROM A LAW
    13 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OR RETIREMENT CREDENTIALS FROM A LAW
    14 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY; OR
    15 (III) IS AN ACTIVE OR RETIRED MEMBER OF THE ARMED
    16 FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES OR, OR THE NATIONAL GUARD, OR THE
    17 MARYLAND DEFENSE FORCE AND POSSESSES A VALID MILITARY
    18 IDENTIFICATION CARD; AND OR
    19 (IV) IS PURCHASING, RENTING, OR RECEIVING AN ANTIQUE,
    20 CURIO, OR RELIC FIREARM, AS DEFINED IN FEDERAL LAW OR IN
    21 DETERMINATIONS PUBLISHED BY THE BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO,
    22 FIREARMS AND EXPLOSIVES; AND
    This clearly states that Active/Retired LEO, Active/Retired Military (including National Guard personnel, and making no distinction between "Active Duty" v. "Reserve" component) (regardless of whether "WHILE IN PERFORMANCE" or not), and anyone purchasing a C&R/Antique handgun do not need an HQL.

    With regards to your interpretation of the training requirements, I would clarify your points by referring you to Enrolled SB281, pages 28 (lines 20-30) and 29 (lines 1-16).

    1. Active/retired law enforcement officers are not exempt from the training requirement, as such an exemption is superfluous since the ENTIRE HQL does not apply to them. (page 28, lines 23-24, stricken as noted).
    2. Active/Retired members of the Armed Forces are not exempt from the training requirement, as such an exemption is superfluous since the ENTIRE HQL does not apply to them (page 28, lines 25-25, stricken as noted).
    3. You neglected to mention that current holders of a Maryland Hunter Safety Course Certificate are exempt from the training requirements, as long as the course that led to the certificate satisfies the current requirements of Natural Resources Code, Annotated Section 10-301.1. (page 28, lines 29-30, and page 29, lines 1-2).
    4. One does not have to be an HQL instructor, merely a "qualified handgun instructor" (page 29, line 10).
    5. You neglected to mention that employees of armored car companies, with currently valid permits issued under Public Safety Code, Annotated, Title 5, Subtitle 3 are exempt from the training requirement (page 29, lines 13-15).
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,915
    Messages
    7,258,416
    Members
    33,348
    Latest member
    Eric_Hehl

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom