Questions regarding driving to the range
- Thread starter akrobatik
- Start date
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Hmm. So if I have loaded magazines in my range bag, and my unloaded handgun in a separate compartment in the same range bag, while on a MD interstate, I'm breaking the law?? I ask this because I see several people leaving out of gun ranges with one bag, with ammo and their gun in the same bag.
No you're not breaking the law.
You can legally have loaded magazines in the same range bag with an unloaded pistol.
The police may not know that though, so it is best to be discrete.
See Attachment:
You can legally have loaded magazines in the same range bag with an unloaded pistol.
The police may not know that though, so it is best to be discrete.
See Attachment:
CrueChief
Cocker Dad/RIP Bella
Can't see why a citizen would have their vehicle searched if they are minding there own busisness while driving home from the range. Just because the state does not respect the 2A they do respect the 4A afterall that one is for the criminals too.
LongTom
Active Member
Locks are a good idea if your firearms are in the back seat or something that amounts to being in the same compartment as the driver.
- Apr 9, 2012
- 47
When I transport a gun to the range I like to use a little common sense. How can I make it seem like a lot of work while driving to be able to get my gun, get my magazines, get my ammo, load the magazines, and insert that magazine into the gun while seatbelted ready to fire. If you can't do all of this while seatbelted and driving you are doing it correctly. If it's easy to do all of this while seatbelted you are doing it wrong. I purposely separate the gun which is in the factory carrying case from the ammo which is in the original boxes.
Over a year ago if the OP was to be beleived, a member here did have his weapon confiscated by an over zealous, and nervous Mo Co LEO. That is a fact. I don't know the final disposition. His error was allowing a search of his vehicle. IIRC he may have had a long gun on the back seat but not sure. He was wearing a range badge. That certainly doesn't even come close to PC or even reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime (RAS) IMO
If you stay in MD, you comply with MD 4-203 statute, not FOPA. That is unloaded and holstered. MD AG has stated FOPA doesn't even apply if you are going out of state because his opinion for now anyway is you cannot "posess and carry" in MD, thereby negating FOPA.
If you go OOS tell anyone who asks you are going to the range. You are then at least for that moment in the eyes of the AG, legal.
Opinions attached.
If you stay in MD, you comply with MD 4-203 statute, not FOPA. That is unloaded and holstered. MD AG has stated FOPA doesn't even apply if you are going out of state because his opinion for now anyway is you cannot "posess and carry" in MD, thereby negating FOPA.
If you go OOS tell anyone who asks you are going to the range. You are then at least for that moment in the eyes of the AG, legal.
Opinions attached.
- Feb 27, 2012
- 322
The DC area has a very high federal police presence. Park police, Secret Service, ATF, (and yes, NCIS) etc. And given the number of borders in the metropolitan area, even if you're not planning to leave the state, it's probably safest to develop a habit of throwing your range bag in the trunk. The MD AG may not be all that worried about your violating FOPA, but any federal officer who pulls you over and sees your range bag inside the car might have grounds to arrest you assuming you crossed a VA/MD/DC border before he pulls you over. All it might take is giving a truthful answer to the question "Where are you coming from?"
Throw it in the trunk and you can potentially avoid turning a speeding citation on a parkway into a federal crime. Not to mention, reducing the likelihood of theft.
Yes officer, I often buy groceries before going to the range. Why?
iobidder
1 point'er
That thread or the OP's post is pure BS.
Yeah, totally entertaining
I know you're banned, but how long did this take you to think up? I won't hold my breath for the answer.
First off, who wears a 'Range Badge'? Second if I saw one I would be amused and laugh. Don't think PC was an issue since the OP had the choice to consent. Now the facts, wearing that silly badge has not merit to cause PC.
I believe it happened. Maybe you'd laugh. That's your reaction. Apparently the Mo Co LEO did not find it funny. You are correct in the wearing of a range badge was neither PC or RAS. The officer took the weapon anyway. Bad move on her part. She took the weapon if the post was accurate.
Last edited:
Just WTF are you sneering at? You've wandered off the Reservation, into the Wilderness of "I Don't Know What I'm Blathering About".
Every member of the Associated Gun Clubs is required to wear a Range Badge while on AGC property. The badge costs $150 a year. Many members wear them on their hats or jackets. It's easy to forget you're wearing it while drivng home.
Why is that a subject for your contemptuous sneering? Many employees of government agencies and large private firms are required to wear ID badges at work. I see people wearing such badges in the grocery store. I believe you yourself wear a badge at work. So why is the wearing of an ID badge a thing for you to sneer at derisively?
If you are in MD, the ONLY requirement is unloaded and holstered or in a case.
Period.
Period.
Right! But it must be an enclosed holster or case.
ffemtreed
Ultimate Member
Don't forget that you also have to be transporting for one of the lawful reasons as well. Such as going to range, gunsmith and etc.
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
I wonder if that is strictly true. Of course, if your origin and destination are both in MD, the 4-203 conditions control. However, FOPA applies to the interstate transportation of firearms. In the AG opinion you attach, the Assist. AG notes this and opines:
The federal law you cite (18 USC 926A) applies to the interstate transportation of a firearm (handgun or long arm) and supersedes Maryland law. It would have no bearing on the transportation of a firearm where the origin and destination are both within Maryland.
Now, the operative language of 18 U.S.C. 926A (FOPA) provides:
any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle
For example, if the MD resident has a CCW permit from Virginia then it would seem to follow that FOPA would apply if you are transporting the firearm from your home, a "place" where you are allowed to "possess and carry," to Virginia, which is also a "place" where you are also allowed to "possess and carry" on a direct non-stop trip to VA, as long as you transport in MD in compliance with 4-203 AND FOPA (e.g., unloaded and gun and ammo in the trunk) Stop once you are in VA and then carry in complaince with the CCW permit. Stop before you re-enter MD and carry in compliance with 4-203 and FOPA (unloaded and gun and ammo in the trunk).
I don't know of any case law on this. Does anyone (LEO or not) have any real life experience with this sort of carrying?
This is how I read this law too. I don't understand why the advice on this board is consistently "if you're going out of state and intend to CCW, always tell the cops you're going to a range". I feel like the cop would look at my lack of targets and two mags of hollow points and see right through that BS
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
Being less than fully truthful in official statements is a bad idea. Just be fully compliant with the law. If you are going to the range (or other destinations permitted by 4-203), fine. If you are going directly from your home to another state in compliance with FOPA, fine. If not either, then don't carry.
I also wondered more than once about the AG's opinion because in the same opinion, he states FOPA would have "no bearing on a trip where the origin and destination are both in MD," leading one to conclude that if only one was in MD,(origin or destination) that FOPA would apply. But then he states that MD 4-203 has no bearing on travel THROUGH the state.
So which is it? Or is both?
He muddied the waters instead of clearing them IMO.
The AG opinion on FOPA would make me think that he thinks "possess and carry" doesn't apply to your home. Except it doesn't say that. That's why the advice here is to be engaged in a 4-203 permissable activity. We aren't lawyers and there is no case law I can find. Better safe than sorry.
Are all you lawyers like this?
So which is it? Or is both?
He muddied the waters instead of clearing them IMO.
The AG opinion on FOPA would make me think that he thinks "possess and carry" doesn't apply to your home. Except it doesn't say that. That's why the advice here is to be engaged in a 4-203 permissable activity. We aren't lawyers and there is no case law I can find. Better safe than sorry.
Are all you lawyers like this?
esqappellate
President, MSI
- Feb 12, 2012
- 7,408
I also wondered more than once about the AG's opinion because in the same opinion, he states FOPA would have "no bearing on a trip where the origin and destination are both in MD," leading one to conclude that if only one was in MD,(origin or destination) that FOPA would apply. But then he states that MD 4-203 has no bearing on travel THROUGH the state.
So which is it? Or is both?
He muddied the waters instead of clearing them IMO.
The AG opinion on FOPA would make me think that he thinks "possess and carry" doesn't apply to your home. Except it doesn't say that. That's why the advice here is to be engaged in a 4-203 permissable activity. We aren't lawyers and there is no case law I can find. Better safe than sorry.
Are all you lawyers like this?
He did muddy them. I agree. While this is not legal advice, to me, at least, that you are entitled to "possess and carry" in your home is beyond reasonable dispute, at least after Heller and McDonald. The home is a "place." Even in MD. And no, not all of us are that bad. Some of us actually strive for clarity in what we write.
You can count on the AG's Office to construe any criminal statute in the broadest possible terms. One thing for sure, if you are solely in MD and NOT headed out of state, you must comply with 4-203 -- there is no defense under FOPA where both the origin and the destination are in MD. FOPA simply does not apply to travel solely intrastate.In an abundance of caution I must add this note. It is a fact question under FOPA concerning whether you (a MD resident) were engaged in interstate travel while still in Maryland (viz., were you *really* headed over to VA or are you just saying that....). So, if the officer does not believe you, you may well be arrested and charged under 4-203 -- you may have to assert the FOPA defense in the ensuing criminal trial if you can't get them dropped earlier. See, e.g., Torrace v. Port Authority of New York, 615 F.3d 129 (2d Cir. 2010). The same fact question and the same risk is presented for destinations permitted under 4-203.
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