DC Emergency legislation on ghost guns

1ceman · Feb 28, 2020

DC at it again.....
https://moca.dc.gov/release/mayor-bowser-announces-emergency-ghost-gun-legislation

WildWeasel · Feb 28, 2020

What a crock. Too bad they can't make crimes with a firearm illegal...

IX-3 · Feb 28, 2020

The permanent version of the legislation will also create a private right of action allowing any victim of a ghost gun to sue the manufacturer of the ghost gun and hold them liable for their actions.

They do realize the manufacturer, in this case, would be the person that bought the 80% and not the person selling the 80% right?

I know they're stupid and don't realize it because why charge the actual criminal when they can go after a company instead.

davsco · Feb 28, 2020

how about just enforcing the laws actually on the books and see what that does to your crime rate??? these idiots want to attack everything BUT the actual problem (the criminals).

and then they want to enable 3rd party victims to sue the gun manufacturer? can you imagine folks suing ford and chevy because their vehicles were used in bank robberies? this crap has gotten so far over the top it's beyond ridiculous.

davsco · Feb 28, 2020

IX-3 said:
They do realize the manufacturer, in this case, would be the person that bought the 80% and not the person selling the 80% right?

I know they're stupid and don't realize it because why charge the actual criminal when they can go after a company instead.

no, they want to go after the companies that made the 80% guns (jigs/kits).

CrawfishStu · Feb 28, 2020

I'm sure that their ignorance on the term "manufacturer" will lead to some confusion.
What happens when someone takes a block of metal made by the government and mills it into a firearm? Where does it stop?

swamplynx · Feb 28, 2020

Totally redundant feel good legislation since possession of an unregistered firearm is already a crime in DC. Who is this even targeting?

Glaron · Feb 28, 2020

swamplynx said:
Totally redundant feel good legislation since possession of an unregistered firearm is already a crime in DC. Who is this even targeting?

Lawyers, taxpayers. Fruitloop lawsuits?

pbharvey · Feb 28, 2020

I listened to this when MPD streamed the press conference today live today on Twitter. No real mention made of changing criminal behavior and reducing gun crimes just more picking and choosing as to which guns are worse than others.
How many gun charges are dropped against criminals? I bet more are dropped than are fully prosecuted.

StantonCree · Feb 28, 2020

swamplynx said:
Totally redundant feel good legislation since possession of an unregistered firearm is already a crime in DC. Who is this even targeting?

I’ll fully agree but i am kinda blow away that 6% of the 2019 recovered guns were 80%’s. I knew a lot were recovered but that number is way higher then i imagined.

Edit I’m an idiot it’s 6% but still more then i thought

pbharvey · Feb 28, 2020

StantonCree said:
I’ll fully agree but i am kinda blow away that 16% of the 2019 recovered guns were 80%’s. I knew a lot were recovered but that number is way higher then i imagined.

I wonder if that number includes regular guns with a removed or obliterated serial number?

StantonCree · Feb 28, 2020

pbharvey said:
I wonder if that number includes regular guns with a removed or obliterated serial number?

I’m 80% (see what i did there) that it does not. Guns are identified by 3 catagories (make/model/ serial #) and in out daily report 80% gun recoveries are listed as P80s

PS see my % correction. I’m still amazed it’s not a decimal %

swamplynx · Feb 28, 2020

StantonCree said:
I’ll fully agree but i am kinda blow away that 16% of the 2019 recovered guns were 80%’s. I knew a lot were recovered but that number is way higher then i imagined.

Surprised me too. I imagine a few entrepreneurial thugs that previously did a fair amount of straw purchases got smart and started building 80s for illegal resell.

Going after 80s is still ridiculous, even if it was done Federally. People would just start selling 75s, then 60s, etc., until pipes, springs, CNC mills, stencils, and crayons were illegal. Start actually prosecuting felons in possession and this wouldn't be a problem.

MigraineMan · Feb 28, 2020

“This emergency legislation is an important step towards reducing violent gun crimes in the District and getting these guns off our streets and out of the hands of violent offenders.”

Help me out here. It's Friday, I'm tired ... how exactly is this going to work?

[..] a serial number allows [a firearm] to be traced to its manufacturing source.

Mkay ... maybe I'm just being thick. I'm observing that:
a) a registry would be required to connect the firearm to a manufacturer,
b) criminals won't be registering firearms they are prohibited from having,
c) police won't be in a position to connect a firearm used in a crime to a manufacturer until *after* the crime has been committed,
d) knowing which company or individual manufactured a firearm doesn't do jack to reduce incidents of violent crime (though it does give a bloated bureaucracy something to do to justify its own existence.)

Ob. ICP:
"Magnetometers, how do they f'in work?"

BlueHeeler · Feb 28, 2020

This has been in the works for a while. The legislation is useless and redundant. Owning or possessing an unregistered firearm in DC is already illegal. There is no way to register an unserialized firearm. By extension all 80% lowers converted to more than 81% are illegal by definition.

Is DC making illegal possession double penalty? It does not matter. They do not prosecute violent criminals on the current gun laws and they will not prosecute on this law either.

Personally I am affected because I have always wanted to build and register a custom G34 P80 for the experience of building "my gun" and avoid the $125 transfer fee. If necessary, I would have paid to have it serialized like California so I could be legal.

That will not happen because 'soft on criminals' Phil Mendelson (who wrote the bill) only targets the law abiding citizens.

StantonCree · Feb 28, 2020

Pic of the table at the press conference

swamplynx · Feb 28, 2020

BlueHeeler said:
This has been in the works for a while. The legislation is useless and redundant. Owning or possessing an unregistered firearm in DC is already illegal. There is no way to register an unserialized firearm. By extension all 80% lowers converted to more than 81% are illegal by definition.

Is DC making illegal possession double penalty? It does not matter. They do not prosecute violent criminals on the current gun laws and they will not prosecute on this law either.

Personally I am affected because I have always wanted to build and register a custom G34 P80 for the experience of building "my gun" and avoid the $125 transfer fee. If necessary, I would have paid to have it serialized like California so I could be legal.

That will not happen because soft on criminals Phil Mendelson (who wrote the bill) only targets the law abiding citizens.

Wouldn’t it have already been illegal though? The second you hit 81% in your basement in DC you have an unregistered firearm. Or were you thinking the X numbers of hours to notify MPD of bringing a previously owned firearm would get you though that. Even then the MA/CA/MD handgun roster would come into play.

Conceivably you could still (for now, thanks Gov. Blackface) build at a friend’s in VA or another free state, then register before bringing in (provided the roster requirement wasn’t a show stopper).

Damn commies...

swamplynx · Feb 28, 2020

StantonCree said:
Pic of the table at the press conference

I’m shocked to see the long guns. What are the bangers doing with that SBR with the holo sight? Drive bys? Shit be cray. Stay frosty.

BlueHeeler · Feb 28, 2020

StantonCree said:
Pic of the table at the press conference

Those guns have committed no crimes. People commit crimes. That table is irrelevant to crime.

In the name of safety, a more effective press conference would be:

"This is an unregistered/unserialized P80 Glock possessed by BoBo while in the commission of a crime. He is being charged with carrying a pistol without a license, possession of an unregistered firearm, possession of ammunition without a registration certificate, possession of a high capacity ammunition feeding device, and assault with a deadly weapon (gun). Say bye bye to BoBo.”

lazarus · Feb 28, 2020

swamplynx said:
Surprised me too. I imagine a few entrepreneurial thugs that previously did a fair amount of straw purchases got smart and started building 80s for illegal resell.

Going after 80s is still ridiculous, even if it was done Federally. People would just start selling 75s, then 60s, etc., until pipes, springs, CNC mills, stencils, and crayons were illegal. Start actually prosecuting felons in possession and this wouldn't be a problem.

That’s what I said in the other thread. I’d bet almost anything this is a few guys or some small groups (hell, maybe some big groups) that have decided to start buying P80s and parts and finishing them to sell, rather than straw purchases or stolen guns either because traceability is harder or because it is saving a buck. I doubt this legislation would touch the number even if WV, VA, MD and PA all banned 80s and ghost guns.

That is a troubling trend. However, to me it says more that there is a giant market for guns. The harder to get guns legitimately or illegitimately will get people to get creative. In some countries it is hard for civilians to have guns, so there aren’t many stolen guns in the market and straw purchases are also by extension nearly impossible because civilians almost can’t own guns.

So guys and groups just make machine pistols and handguns and shotguns in their little machine shops (see occupied territories in Israel/Palestine, Brazil, etc.)

At most what it does it make them a little more expensive for the criminals, but you just get a thriving black market MANUFACTURING sector. There’s always a market for it.

Some countries like in a lot of Europe have better success, but that is more because they have lower crime rates, so the demand isn’t as high. But that isn’t stopping the criminals who do really want a gun from getting them in places like the Uk, France, Germany, etc.

DC Emergency legislation on ghost guns

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