Replace NICS with DICS???

adit · Jan 14, 2020

DE to Replace NICS with DICS???

Republican State Senator Hocker wants to replace NICS as POC.

WTF? I see nothing good coming out of this.

The only way NICS fails is because of info that hasn't been reported by the states.

I can see 7/10/30 day waits coming just like MD. :mad54:

State Sen. Gerald Hocker, R-Ocean View, announced plans to draft legislation that would bring control of firearms background checks back to the state.

The Firearm Transaction Approval Process, located under the State Bureau of Identification (SBI), a division of the Delaware State Police (DSP), was in operation until 2011. In that year, control was handed over to the federal government.

Under the proposed legislation, the program would be reinstated, placing the State Police as the point of contact for all firearm transactions.

“I am currently drafting legislation with House Majority Whip Larry Mitchell to create a short-term study committee to review the plan. Following the review, full legislation will be brought forward to complete the reinstatement,” Hocker stated.

“Bringing these decisions and this process back to Delaware will make a clear difference. The evidence shows that this is the right approach, as does my experience as a licensed firearms dealer. Too many times under the old FTAP, I saw the federal background check approve purchasers that the State Police denied,” Hocker added.

According to Hocker, a 2008 analysis of moving background checks to the local level is associated with reduced firearm death rates. One analysis reported a 27 percent lower firearm suicide rate and a 22 percent lower homicide rate associated with local-level background checks.

Twenty-one states use a state or local point of contact to conduct background checks for some or all of its firearm transfers.

Thirteen states use a state or local point of contact for all firearm background checks: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Utah, and Virginia. Eight states use a state or local point of contact for handgun background checks only: Maryland, Michigan, Nebraska, New Hampshire, Washington, and Wisconsin.

https://delawarebusinessnow.com/202...ng-gun-background-checks-under-state-control/

r3t1awr3yd · Jan 15, 2020

I think it's a good thing because of garbage states like MD that don't report everything up to NICS. Get the fed out of everything and let the powers go back to the states... that doesn't sound bad to me. What am I missing?

bigjohn · Jan 15, 2020

The cost of the computers and programs the dealers now have to eat. Langfords said it’s about 5k that will be down the hole if they do this

delaware_export · Jan 15, 2020

It’s been my opinion that the only real drawback is the defacto registration. And possible cost increase.

I live in a POC state. I’ve never got a straight answer about it, but it’s my belief that they keep an online, easily searchable database of all info that passes through. Personally I view that as a negative.

Also, it accomplishes what .gov loves, bigger .gov. Iirc Delaware was a POC some time ago, and a 2nd level relative worked there... or at least that’s the understanding I had of her job many years ago. Also a negative imho.

The one possible benefit, at least where I am, ccw holders fill in the 4473, but a call is not required when you present your valid ccw at time of purchase. You still fill the form, and no charge. And they don’t have to send it to the POC. Ffl holds in their records.

There is a charge here, for the BGC if you don’t have ccw, for a new purchase from FFL.

Melnic · Jan 15, 2020

hmm, but for longun/shotguns, you can go to any state and the NICS is consistant. Me thinks someone who gets rejected in DEL, will drive to MD then try there. won't stop anything except handgun

adit · Jan 15, 2020

r3t1awr3yd said:
I think it's a good thing because of garbage states like MD that don't report everything up to NICS. Get the fed out of everything and let the powers go back to the states... that doesn't sound bad to me. What am I missing?

Wouldn't you rather have NICS only in MD? You'd be a fool not to. Think back to 2013 when it was taking months for BG checks to clear. That's one of the reasons I left.

bigjohn said:
The cost of the computers and programs the dealers now have to eat. Langfords said it’s about 5k that will be down the hole if they do this

Ultimately it ends of costing the customer as well.

delaware_export said:
It’s been my opinion that the only real drawback is the defacto registration. And possible cost increase.

I live in a POC state. I’ve never got a straight answer about it, but it’s my belief that they keep an online, easily searchable database of all info that passes through. Personally I view that as a negative.

Also, it accomplishes what .gov loves, bigger .gov. Iirc Delaware was a POC some time ago, and a 2nd level relative worked there... or at least that’s the understanding I had of her job many years ago. Also a negative imho.

The one possible benefit, at least where I am, ccw holders fill in the 4473, but a call is not required when you present your valid ccw at time of purchase. You still fill the form, and no charge. And they don’t have to send it to the POC. Ffl holds in their records.

There is a charge here, for the BGC if you don’t have ccw, for a new purchase from FFL.

Purchases don't currently require a BGC if the buyer has a DE CCDW. See Section 1 (c) (6).

https://delcode.delaware.gov/sessionlaws/ga147/chp020.shtml

Melnic said:
hmm, but for longun/shotguns, you can go to any state and the NICS is consistant. Me thinks someone who gets rejected in DEL, will drive to MD then try there. won't stop anything except handgun

What i worry about is what happens with out of state purchases made in DE. Is DE going to run a NICS BGC for the non-resident? Will the FBI even allow it since DE is the POC? Will/do other POC states report/share their data with other POC states?

At that point, what have we gained, other than complexity, and opportunities for error?

It's another layer of BS, no different from MD's "55" databases they check.

In a state where the legislature and Governor are all Dem controlled this makes it easier to screw with your 2A rights, think delays.

Song Dog · Jan 18, 2020

I'm with you Adit ................What is Senator Hocker thinking ? I hope DSSA and DGR don't sign on to this ..................

swamplynx · Jan 18, 2020

adit said:
What i worry about is what happens with out of state purchases made in DE. Is DE going to run a NICS BGC for the non-resident? Will the FBI even allow it since DE is the POC?

Non-residents will be processed the same way as residents. As a DC resident I buy all my long guns in VA. They put me through the VSP system just like a VA resident.

I still agree this is at a minimum a waste of money and potentially far more nefarious. Usually the state specific systems hit all the same back end databases as NICS (i.e. NCIC, III, etc.), they just also hit their own state specific databases as well.

I think the end goal of the grabbers is both backdoor registration and making people prohibited for additional state specific reasons beyond federal prohibitions that would land someone in NICS; and the first step is having a system in place to enforce that. Unpaid parking tickets, too many speeding tickets, you might find your self prohibited by that state. And while the federal government is supposed to be bound by statute from retaining NICS records, there is no such requirements for the states. No, you may not be saddled with a registration card like DC, but I bet you this newfangled system retains every check and firearm SN put through it. And now that they know what, or some of what, you have, they can come and confiscate when you get dinged for one of those petty state specific probative infractions.

Biggfoot44 · Jan 19, 2020

I have personally purchased in two of those States with State Level POC ( as a non-resident ) . Always went as quickly as NICS , and they charged less than MSP .

Song Dog · Jan 20, 2020

swamplynx said:
Non-residents will be processed the same way as residents. As a DC resident I buy all my long guns in VA. They put me through the VSP system just like a VA resident.

I still agree this is at a minimum a waste of money and potentially far more nefarious. Usually the state specific systems hit all the same back end databases as NICS (i.e. NCIC, III, etc.), they just also hit their own state specific databases as well.

I think the end goal of the grabbers is both backdoor registration and making people prohibited for additional state specific reasons beyond federal prohibitions that would land someone in NICS; and the first step is having a system in place to enforce that. Unpaid parking tickets, too many speeding tickets, you might find your self prohibited by that state. And while the federal government is supposed to be bound by statute from retaining NICS records, there is no such requirements for the states. No, you may not be saddled with a registration card like DC, but I bet you this newfangled system retains every check and firearm SN put through it. And now that they know what, or some of what, you have, they can come and confiscate when you get dinged for one of those petty state specific probative infractions.

This is why we should NOT be in favor of DICS over NICS

Postell · Jan 21, 2020

delaware_export said:
It’s been my opinion that the only real drawback is the defacto registration. And possible cost increase.

I live in a POC state. I’ve never got a straight answer about it, but it’s my belief that they keep an online, easily searchable database of all info that passes through. Personally I view that as a negative.

Also, it accomplishes what .gov loves, bigger .gov. Iirc Delaware was a POC some time ago, and a 2nd level relative worked there... or at least that’s the understanding I had of her job many years ago. Also a negative imho.

The one possible benefit, at least where I am, ccw holders fill in the 4473, but a call is not required when you present your valid ccw at time of purchase. You still fill the form, and no charge. And they don’t have to send it to the POC. Ffl holds in their records.

There is a charge here, for the BGC if you don’t have ccw, for a new purchase from FFL.

This year Indiana is going back to this again this summer, we had it 20 years ago.
Resident gets a free shall issue 5 year carry permit and when buying from a dealer one simply fills out 4473 and shows dealer DL and 5 year permit and walks out the door.

Song Dog · Feb 4, 2020

I been trying to find out where DSSA & DE Gun Rights stand on this Bill without any answer? The Gun Shops I have visited remember when State Police had DICs; communications issues, staffing shortages and slow responses, so if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Other concern, Bloomberg past & current Bills pending in DE, reviewing pending Bills in Va. WE Should NOT give up NICS for DICS we'll regret it.

adit · Feb 4, 2020

Song Dog said:
I been trying to find out where DSSA & DE Gun Rights stand on this Bill without any answer? The Gun Shops I have visited remember when State Police had DICs; communications issues, staffing shortages and slow responses, so if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Other concern, Bloomberg past & current Bills pending in DE, reviewing pending Bills in Va. WE Should NOT give up NICS for DICS we'll regret it.

Crickets for sure.

And if it gets replaced, the 3 day/delayed NICS release is gone as well.

delaware_export · Feb 5, 2020

One other thing to consider.

What does Delaware law say regarding private sale BGC.

Nevada had a Law conflict with the state being POC for ffl transfer vs private sales having to go straight to NICS. This conflict made the law for private BGC through NICS invalid. NICS refused to take the 4473 direct from dealers. Only allowing contact via the POC, but the law explicitly specified direct from ffl to nics. So private sales couldn’t comply. And therefore the PRIVATE BGC Thing was invalid.

They rewrote the law eventually, but it delayed BGC for private sales for 2 years.

Could be worth checking into.

adit said:
Crickets for sure.

And if it gets replaced, the 3 day/delayed NICS release is gone as well.

Song Dog · Feb 5, 2020

adit said:
Crickets for sure.

And if it gets replaced, the 3 day/delayed NICS release is gone as well.

Bloomberg with his millions driving the Bus nation wide; only have to look at other enacted Laws and pending in State's you don't want to hand off NICS over to DICS. Opens up much easier control to enact further laws/regulations, licensing scheme like HQL, ammo license and denials for minor infractions IE motor vehicle. Some of us remember Senator Tyings in the 1980's with State Police approval for handgun purchases so how much more has that been added to over the years? Think about it and be careful what you wish for, just saying .......................

Melnic · Feb 5, 2020

I never really was a fan of DICS

Replace NICS with DICS???

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