HQL chances with misdemeanor -- pbj

pleez · Feb 21, 2020

Quick question because I'm seeing a lot of different things on the forums, researching on google etc.

In 2016 I was charged with a misdemeanor resisting arrest, completed pbj cleanly. Just received a letter in the mail that background/fingerprint screening was done and nolle prosequi was made by states attorney on that charge, and PBJ was given and completed.

I really didn't want to make another thread, hoping to fine someone who had same situation, but I saw a lot of, assault, wrongful possession, etc, not so much a misdemeanor. So looking up resisting, it's considered a misdemeanor in MD, and seeing that PBJ is not a conviction, what's the probability my HQL app will go through still? Am I looking good orrrrr?

Thanks for any insight in advance.

danb · Feb 21, 2020

So, you already applied for HQL? I guess we will find out!

I would said before doing this (try to) get it expunged... but I guess we will see.

pleez · Feb 21, 2020

Lol i guess we will find out haha. I've been calling and asking around, and almost every gun shop/instructor said PBJ w/ a non-violent crime, i should be fine. But just wondering if anyone else had this same situation.

hillbilly grandpa · Feb 21, 2020

Have you called the Licensing Division of MSP and asked them? I made an inquiry for a client regarding a DUI PBJ and they told me "No problem." The point is they were forthcoming without any pushback.

danb · Feb 21, 2020

pleez said:
Lol i guess we will find out haha. I've been calling and asking around, and almost every gun shop/instructor said PBJ w/ a non-violent crime, i should be fine. But just wondering if anyone else had this same situation.

I am not sure its that simple. Free legal advice is worth every penny. One would have to be sure about details.

Regardless, you will know in two weeks. Also, regardless, if it were me, I would start the paperwork for the expungement yesterday.

RoadDawg · Feb 21, 2020

pleez said:
Quick question because I'm seeing a lot of different things on the forums, researching on google etc.

In 2016 I was charged with a misdemeanor resisting arrest, completed pbj cleanly. Just received a letter in the mail that background/fingerprint screening was done and nolle prosequi was made by states attorney on that charge, and PBJ was given and completed.

I really didn't want to make another thread, hoping to fine someone who had same situation, but I saw a lot of, assault, wrongful possession, etc, not so much a misdemeanor. So looking up resisting, it's considered a misdemeanor in MD, and seeing that PBJ is not a conviction, what's the probability my HQL app will go through still? Am I looking good orrrrr?

Thanks for any insight in advance.

Nope...

One may NOT be placed on probation of any kind in criminal matters until AFTER a verdict of 'guilty" has been reached by the judge or jury.

The guilty finding is then struck and replaced with PBJ in lieu of sentencing. Once you have completed the probation period... you will not be sentenced for the original offense. But... you cannot claim to have never been found guilty in court for any offense.

Legal gymnastics are difficult to deal with. I know of folks who accepted PBJs on domestic cases 30 years ago... Even though they accepted the PBJ to "get the case over with so their divorce could go through... THEY are now prohibited persons under Federal Law.

Squaregrouper · Feb 21, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Nope...

One may NOT be placed on probation of any kind in criminal matters until AFTER a verdict of 'guilty" has been reached by the judge or jury.

The guilty finding is then struck and replaced with PBJ in lieu of sentencing. Once you have completed the probation period... you will not be sentenced for the original offense. But... you cannot claim to have never been found guilty in court for any offense.

Legal gymnastics are difficult to deal with. I know of folks who accepted PBJs on domestic cases 30 years ago... Even though they accepted the PBJ to "get the case over with so their divorce could go through... THEY are now prohibited persons under Federal Law.

Probation Before Judgement. A guilty plea is stricken from the record and the defendant is given probation. Upon successful completion of probation, the record is entered as a PBJ. This is not a conviction.
.
https://www.enlawyers.com/1554/atto...d-lawyer-explains-probation-before-judgement/
https://ricelawmd.com/maryland-probation-before-judgment/
https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/what-you-might-not-know-about-a-maryland-pbj

RoadDawg · Feb 21, 2020

squaregrouper said:
Probation Before Judgement. A guilty plea is stricken from the record and the defendant is given probation. Upon successful completion of probation, the record is entered as a PBJ. This is not a conviction.
.
https://www.enlawyers.com/1554/atto...d-lawyer-explains-probation-before-judgement/
https://ricelawmd.com/maryland-probation-before-judgment/
https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/what-you-might-not-know-about-a-maryland-pbj

Simplified... A "Judgement" is not the finding of guilt or innocence... It is the punishment assigned after the verdict.

In all of my years in court case after court case... and many multiples thereof... I NEVER saw a Judge, ANY judge in ANY court... give ANYONE PBJ before advising them first that they have been found guilty.

The "PBJ" is not the conviction... true. But true ONLY because it comes AFTER the conviction.

No judge can place any person on any probation for a criminal offense for which they have been found innocent.

Find one person... who has ever accepted a PBJ on any domestic related charge... and is not currently a prohibited person under Federal Law.

How can an innocent person... free of conviction... be prohibited by law?

Squaregrouper · Feb 21, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Simplified... A "Judgement" is not the finding of guilt or innocence... It is the punishment assigned after the verdict.

In all of my years in court case after court case... and many multiples thereof... I NEVER saw a Judge, ANY judge in ANY court... give ANYONE PBJ before advising them first that they have been found guilty.

The "PBJ" is not the conviction... true. But true ONLY because it comes AFTER the conviction.

No judge can place any person on any probation for a criminal offense for which they have been found innocent.

Correct. I stated that in my second sentence above,

RoadDawg · Feb 21, 2020

squaregrouper said:
Correct. I stated that in my second sentence above,

I see it brought up a lot in conversations where folks think that they were never found guilty because the accepted a PBJ.

The truth is that those found innocent in any criminal matter cannot be placed on probation of any kind. Not even PBJ.

willtill · Feb 21, 2020

So the Judge renders the verdict "Guilty" and then removes it? Like using an eraser? Due to the PBJ rendered thereafter as the solution to the charge?

Fabs? Where R U?

pleez · Feb 21, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Simplified... A "Judgement" is not the finding of guilt or innocence... It is the punishment assigned after the verdict.

In all of my years in court case after court case... and many multiples thereof... I NEVER saw a Judge, ANY judge in ANY court... give ANYONE PBJ before advising them first that they have been found guilty.

The "PBJ" is not the conviction... true. But true ONLY because it comes AFTER the conviction.

No judge can place any person on any probation for a criminal offense for which they have been found innocent.

Find one person... who has ever accepted a PBJ on any domestic related charge... and is not currently a prohibited person under Federal Law.

How can an innocent person... free of conviction... be prohibited by law?

Yeah, my fault I did not explain that correctly. Looking at Maryland Judiciary system, I was originally charged with resisting arrest, and the State went with nolle, and moved the charge to a Disorderly conduct, which I did plead guilty and had to serve the PBJ. So, does the plead of guilty, is that not looking good for me? =(

I wasn't charged with resisting or anything, it just shows that was my original charge, and then I was charged with disorderly conduct. Misdemeanor, less than 1 year max jail time, still falls within not a felony or misdemeanor charge, but that PBJ, and everything in general is what's getting me so confused. Given it wasn't a violent act of crime or felony, am I looking good? I tried calling the MSP Lic unit but they were closed by the time I called.

RoadDawg · Feb 21, 2020

willtill said:
So the Judge renders the verdict "Guilty" and then removes it. Like using an eraser. Due to the PBJ rendering therafter as the solution to the charge?

Fabs? Where R U?

Legalese... Striking the verdict in lieu of PBJ is NOT "erasing" the verdict. It is replacing it with the agreed probation before judgement. Which leaves the original verdict of guilty hanging over the defendants head in the event they should not complete the probationary requirements.

outrider58 · Feb 21, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Legalese... Striking the verdict in lieu of PBJ is NOT "erasing" the verdict. It is replacing it with the agreed probation before judgement. Which leaves the original verdict of guilty hanging over the defendants head in the event they should not complete the probationary requirements.

Actually, it stays a guilty verdict in some states, regardless of final outcome of PBJ.

rob b · Feb 21, 2020

can you get this expunged ?

RoadDawg · Feb 21, 2020

pleez said:
Yeah, my fault I did not explain that correctly. Looking at Maryland Judiciary system, I was originally charged with resisting arrest, and the State went with nolle, and moved the charge to a Disorderly conduct, which I did plead guilty and had to serve the PBJ. So, does the plead of guilty, is that not looking good for me? =(

I wasn't charged with resisting or anything, it just shows that was my original charge, and then I was charged with disorderly conduct. Misdemeanor, less than 1 year max jail time, still falls within not a felony or misdemeanor charge, but that PBJ, and everything in general is what's getting me so confused. Given it wasn't a violent act of crime or felony, am I looking good? I tried calling the MSP Lic unit but they were closed by the time I called.

That would be dependent largely upon the penalty for the charge that you plead to. If the penalty exceeds the Maryland sentencing guidelines... and you have not had the case expunged... It will likely end in a No. However, once the record has been expunged... and a period of time has passed... It IS possible that you may be restored. I cannot rule that out as I am aware of at least one or more particular cases where it was done. Again... PROVIDED it is not for domestic related charges.

pleez · Feb 21, 2020

rob b said:
can you get this expunged ?

I think I have to wait 1 more year to get it expunged. 3 years right? It was back in 2016, court was 2017, finished PBJ in 2018 successfully.

RoadDawg · Feb 21, 2020

outrider58 said:
Actually, it stays a guilty verdict in some states, regardless of final outcome of PBJ.

Yes... I know.

But in Maryland... it surprisingly enough... is possible after time and expungement... to be restored.

GrimReaper · Feb 21, 2020

A PBJ is not a conviction but receiving a PBJ for demostic violence or 2nd degree assault still makes you a prohibited person.

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

RoadDawg · Feb 21, 2020

pleez said:
I think I have to wait 1 more year to get it expunged. 3 years right? It was back in 2016, court was 2017, finished PBJ in 2018 successfully.

Yes... AT LEAST three years must pass from the date of the court appearance where you were originally found/plead guilty.

Further... It MAY (I am not completely certain of this) extend to three years from the end of the probation period.

Check with your attorney.

HQL chances with misdemeanor -- pbj

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