RCBS hand priming tool exploded

lazarus said:

I don't, nor plan to ever, sit down and pre-prime hundreds and hundreds of cases. So maximizing speed isn't a priority. I'd like to speed it up and I don't mind a bit more safety here...

I haven't gotten in to large scale reloading yet. Mostly just loading 50 rounds at a time (or less). Trying out loads. I've probably loaded 600-800 rounds so far in the last 9 months of real reloading.

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Trying to reload fast changes the entire ballgame of reloading, that is for certain. When I realized how much my expenditure of 223 was going up, that was finally the impetus to invest heavily in a higher-end progressive press. It's a long-term purchase. (Incidentally, also finding out that my reject pile of cheap 55gr reloads was still infinitely more consistent and accurate than steel-case didn't hurt, either.)

App was/is nice. I sure as heck don't mind pre-priming a ton of cases. Maybe if or when some day primers aren't as scarce. But I don't really want to prime a few thousand cases and then find out "oh, I wanted to prime this stuff over there instead".

But anyway, if I was going to run up 100, 200 rounds, the Acp sounds nice.

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I think the Lee APP and ACP make a lot of sense for the crowd that's loading on a single stage, especially with a quick change mount system, or do not have an on-press prep solution. You can prep/size your brass on the APP, swage if needed, prime it on the ACP, charge it off the press, and then seat the bullets using your single stage. I lean heavily towards doing everything progressive these days, but it is expensive to set up new calibers on the 1100 and Mark7, and if I'm loading precision, sometimes the math does not work out.

erwos said:

Trying to reload fast changes the entire ballgame of reloading, that is for certain. When I realized how much my expenditure of 223 was going up, that was finally the impetus to invest heavily in a higher-end progressive press. It's a long-term purchase. (Incidentally, also finding out that my reject pile of cheap 55gr reloads was still infinitely more consistent and accurate than steel-case didn't hurt, either.)


I think the Lee APP and ACP make a lot of sense for the crowd that's loading on a single stage, especially with a quick change mount system, or do not have an on-press prep solution. You can prep/size your brass on the APP, swage if needed, prime it on the ACP, charge it off the press, and then seat the bullets using your single stage. I lean heavily towards doing everything progressive these days, but it is expensive to set up new calibers on the 1100 and Mark7, and if I'm loading precision, sometimes the math does not work out.

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You forgot to mention that you need to choose/have a powder that meters well (e.g. CFE223, 748, H335) if you're going to run them through start to finish on a progressive. It doesn't matter how expensive your press or powder measure is. The extruded powders that I've used just don't meter well enough to use in a progressive. That could be downright dangerous if your load is near max.

PowPow said:

You forgot to mention that you need to choose/have a powder that meters well (e.g. CFE223, 748, H335) if you're going to run them through start to finish on a progressive. It doesn't matter how expensive your press or powder measure is. The extruded powders that I've used just don't meter well enough to use in a progressive. That could be downright dangerous if your load is near max.

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If you're loading that close to max on a progressive, you're probably doing it wrong anyways. But, yes, powder and powder measure choice is a thing. I found that out the hard way with 4064. I only buy flake and ball powders these days. Limits my choices, but they meter so well that it's worth it. You aren't doing true precision loading using an on-press powder measure.

PowPow said:

You forgot to mention that you need to choose/have a powder that meters well (e.g. CFE223, 748, H335) if you're going to run them through start to finish on a progressive. It doesn't matter how expensive your press or powder measure is. The extruded powders that I've used just don't meter well enough to use in a progressive. That could be downright dangerous if your load is near max.

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My brother found out stick powder doesn't meter great while using my Hornady AP, it's case activated powder measure does not like IMR 4350. It was inconsistent and was having issues cutting through the sticks of powder so he gave up trying to use the AP for that. Once everything was cleaned out he used CFE223 and did some 5.56 where it had zero issues metering.

Ball powders go in the AP, stick powders only go in the Lyman standalone powder measure. If your progressive has enough room use some type of powder cop die, if it doesn't then routinely check loads to make sure they haven't changed.

PowPow said:

You forgot to mention that you need to choose/have a powder that meters well (e.g. CFE223, 748, H335) if you're going to run them through start to finish on a progressive. It doesn't matter how expensive your press or powder measure is. The extruded powders that I've used just don't meter well enough to use in a progressive. That could be downright dangerous if your load is near max.

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Thanks, yeah. I mean, I am heavily invested in the CFE powders. At least from my experimenting, CFE pistol and CFE 223 work a treat in almost all calibers I load. Be nice if there was load data for a few others, but I've found some info on the interwebz that would make me feel safe trying out (32acp, 9 Mak and 7.62x25 in case you were wondering). That said, I've got other powders (BE, H110) that there is plenty of load data for those.

Probably I'll stick with what I have been doing/moving towards. Off press case prep using the App, and probably get an Acp eventually also. Do pretty low volume stuff all on my Lyman T-mag. I've got enough brass and/or commercial loads in all my calibers it isn't like I am reloading the same 50 cases after each range trip. It isn't much of a problem to build up a few hundred cases over a few months/year or two, and then zip them all through the App. The Acp looks like it is just a primer size swap. Maybe a bit of setup on the automatic feeding to get it running really smooth. But should still speed up priming a bunch for when I do want to load up 100, 200 rounds or whatever.

Probably waiting on doing any kind of progressive (or less Classic turret, or whatever) for a few years. Just not going to be able to shoot the volumes where it makes a huge amount of sense to either invest in that, or where it'll be a serious time saver.

The App already saves a ton of time if I am going to just wait and process several hundred cases compared to doing it on my T-mag.

At current with the pandemic I don't think I am shooting more than maybe 500-600 rounds in the last 12 months (not including 22lr, which was probably 300-400 rounds in the last year). Probably pick up a little, even if the pandemic and shortages don't resolve anytime soon.

But I doubt I'll hit even 1000 rounds of center fire over the next 12 months.

Pre-pandemic I was shooting maybe 1500 rounds of center fire a year (and maybe another 500-600 22lr). Once things resolve my shooting will probably return to normal. Maybe even pick up a little with reloading and my kids getting older. The older two are shooting, but I am only getting them to the range like twice a year right now and almost all 22lr. Too much hassle with masks, other shooters, etc. Youngest I need to take, but I don't need her to deal with wearing a mask and learning to shoot and stuff. She is very fine waiting. She doesn't want to shoot guns, but thinks it is an important skill to have, so she'd like me to show her.

Anyway, right now that is only like 50 rounds a month to keep up. Might stretch closer to 100 if things pick up. Once things fully resolve I probably wouldn't even hit 150 rounds a month I need to reload.

Straight wall that is maybe at most 20 minutes to run 150 cases sized, deprimed and expanded on the App. Maybe 20-30 minutes to hand prime them all. Maybe 30 minutes to charge, seat and crimp them. Maybe an hour and a half a month. Seems like the Acp might halve my priming time (or better if it runs better than I hope and expect), which would be a nice little time savings. Running the App would be a little more efficient probably if I was doing even more cases.

Rifle would of course be slower even though they wouldn't need a second pass for expansion (needing to be lubed or better lube as 9mm seems like it needs some to run on the App, plus check OAL for trimming and if necessary trimming).

Occasionally I can sneak and justify sneaking in to my gun room for half an hour to do a little loading, so having to basically just load my powder measure, check the first few throws and then charge, seat/crimp and I have a final round is nice. If all the prep is done, could easily sneak in and load 50-100 rounds before someone comes looking for me and I need to quick cleanup. Or I use that time to run a bunch of cases through the App. Or Acp (once I eventually get one).

Every once in awhile I've got a weekend afternoon not having my time molested by responsibilities or kids. That is time better spent figuring out load development for something new, taking notes, etc. And/or I get "caught up", because that is when I have the time to run a few hundred rounds through various things.

Feels like the "I am retired and my time is my own" or at least my kids have all moved away is when a progressive makes more sense when I might be headed to the range a couple of times a month, shooting a couple of hundred rounds at a trip. Normally I am taking a handgun or two and a long gun or two and probably shooting 1-2 boxes of ammo in each gun and getting there about every 4-6 weeks.

But I want a progressive...

lazarus said:

Feels like the "I am retired and my time is my own" or at least my kids have all moved away is when a progressive makes more sense when I might be headed to the range a couple of times a month, shooting a couple of hundred rounds at a trip. Normally I am taking a handgun or two and a long gun or two and probably shooting 1-2 boxes of ammo in each gun and getting there about every 4-6 weeks.

But I want a progressive...

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For me - and I have younger kids, too - it was the exact opposite. I want time to shoot, that means I can't spend it reloading every night, which means a progressive is precisely the right thing for me. I've stopped kidding myself about my accuracy needs. I need stuff that goes bang every time and is competitively accurate for 3gun and pistol matches. That's not a high bar at all.

The other nice thing about having a good progressive setup is that you'll keep using it even when times get better. In terms of pistol, I have shot nothing but my own 9mm and 45 handloads this entire year. That's not going to change even when ammo gets cheap again.

erwos said:

If you're loading that close to max on a progressive, you're probably doing it wrong anyways. But, yes, powder and powder measure choice is a thing. I found that out the hard way with 4064.

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I was simply giving an example of how irregular the extruded powders can be, for those who have not tried them in a powder measure like you find on a progressive. Dillon's powder measures are pretty darned good, but powders like 4064, 4350, and even 4895 are not ideal for them. I run these in my ChargeMaster and pour through funnel into my 550.

erwos said:

For me - and I have younger kids, too - it was the exact opposite. I want time to shoot, that means I can't spend it reloading every night, which means a progressive is precisely the right thing for me. I've stopped kidding myself about my accuracy needs. I need stuff that goes bang every time and is competitively accurate for 3gun and pistol matches. That's not a high bar at all.

The other nice thing about having a good progressive setup is that you'll keep using it even when times get better. In terms of pistol, I have shot nothing but my own 9mm and 45 handloads this entire year. That's not going to change even when ammo gets cheap again.

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Oh, I hear you. But it is way easier for me to grab a half hour somewhere, or the occasional couple of hours to reload. Going and shooting? Its 20+ minutes to the range and 20+ back for me. And unless it is something I just need to really fast check and I've got no time, I am not going for a few minutes. Which means any range trip is almost always about a 3hr investment in time. Which I just don't have a ton of. And plenty of time where I do have the spare time where I could go to the range....its not open, because it is 6pm in the winter and I've got a couple of hours.

My pistol accuracy requirements are fairly low. Rifle is a bit more demanding, but not needing extreme accuracy for most stuff. Not that I'd be reloading at volume anyway.

TBH, some of it is that components need to get available and cheaper again for me to probably take real advantage. If I can load up 300 rounds of 9mm for $30-35, well okay maybe I'll just shoot a ton on a range trip. But now, well might not be able to get more primers. Bullets I can get, but more expensive and harder to get. Powder I can probably get, but harder to find exactly what I want.

Yeah, probably if or when things get cheaper I'll continue to mostly shoot my own reloads. Because I enjoy reloading a lot, even if it doesn't save me much. I'll certainly be shooting more because I'll be less worried about replacing things (I'll make sure to keep a nice stock, but even if I have several years of supplies for reloading and commercially loaded ammo on hand at the rate I am shooting, still in the back of my mind of how easy will it be to eventually replace it or how expensive)

Wow

Rockn93yj said:

My fault, I think. I was hand priming 338 Lapua brass with Fed 215m primers. I already primed about 30 pieces of brass when the whole tray exploded. Got a cut on my nose, burned my hands, blood blister on finger, knuckle is swollen and a cut on my knee through my jeans. I was extremely lucky. So what happened? The piece of brass I was priming was new Lapua brass, didn't feel any resistance while priming, at least no different than usual light pressure. I was not using proper technique though. I recently started tipping the device away from my face, just in case a primer went off. The manual clearly says to hold the tray horizontal to reduce the possibility of feeding multiple primers. It was a chain reaction detonation so all 70 primers in the tray went off at once. Wife is pissed there is a hole in the ceiling and it looks like someone set off a shotgun through the ceiling (primers ) Time to put safety first, wear the goggles and don't get complacent. Also time for a new priming tool.

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Always wondered if something like that could happen, but the RCBS hand primers that I have owned never worked long enough to have an accident. I have even sent two of them back to RCBS in pieces hoping to get some kind of compensation or at least a reply, or maybe at least some sympathy.....haha. NOT.

lazarus said:

If I can load up 300 rounds of 9mm for $30-35, well okay maybe I'll just shoot a ton on a range trip. But now, well might not be able to get more primers. Bullets I can get, but more expensive and harder to get. Powder I can probably get, but harder to find exactly what I want.

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Last time I looked at prices to reload (back when ammo was cheap) I could not hit 10 cpr for 9mm. With the brass I already had.

So it was cheaper to buy it at 15 - 17 per round, and have even more brass.

Pinecone said:

Last time I looked at prices to reload (back when ammo was cheap) I could not hit 10 cpr for 9mm. With the brass I already had.

So it was cheaper to buy it at 15 - 17 per round, and have even more brass.

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Yup. My friend bought a Dillion 650 setup for 9mm to feed an ever
growing number of PCCs,etc and I calculated a 17,000 round minimum
to see any return on investment.

Not so much now.. We're still feeding it 11-12cpr components, but at
some point we'll run out and have to start buying those $250/1K boxes
of primers..