Walmart Removing 500+ Gun Counters - 4473's to ATF

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  • Pale Ryder

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 12, 2009
    6,234
    Millersville
    That stinks, when was this policy implemented? Back around 1992-1996 or so, I bought two Remington 12 gauge shotguns and a Remington 22LR rifle from the WalMart in Hanover, PA while I lived in Westminster, MD. They were on clearance at the end of hunting season and were crazy cheap. I hope this isn’t true, I’d like to still have the option of stumbling across a good deal on a firearm if I was out of town at a WalMart.

    Not positive, but I think it goes back to Sandy Hook. I know it was that way in 2015, because I had two stores in Va. Fredericksburg, and King George state it as policy when I wanted to purchase a shotgun they both had. Try it sometime, you may get lucky.
    BTW, Dicks said they had no problem selling to out of state. I just bought it in Md. eventually.
     

    1841DNG

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 17, 2016
    1,143
    Speaking pragmatically: they are the only place I’ve been finding reasonably priced Ammo for clay shooting locally. Usually they have a good bit in stock, until last week. Both 12 and 20g. The 100 round packs. 19.98-22.98, depending on the brand. Last week was the first time I saw them low/empty.

    Bass pro is distant, and usually almost $2/box more extra per ( $7-8vs $5) and little to no stock for months.

    And sportsmans, being bought out by bass pro, has had zero target loads recently. Zero pretty much every ammo, like everywhere in rona times.

    Smaller stores are over $8/box if they carry.

    Online has not had any for shipping recently, since the Rona set in.

    The county range, has a fair supply, but also priced at $7/box or more. Fiocci exclusively.

    My kingdom for an Academy
     

    DanGuy48

    Ultimate Member
    Call it what you want but if you buy a gun retail and complete a 4473, you’ve just ‘registered’ your gun with the US government, especially now since it’s online

    Yeah, funny how police can tell where it came from when they take one into evidence for a crime. I don’t know how it works but could the web’s “Way Back Machine” access and archive such records at some point? Just curious.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Yeah, funny how police can tell where it came from when they take one into evidence for a crime. I don’t know how it works but could the web’s “Way Back Machine” access and archive such records at some point? Just curious.

    It doesn’t. I assume you don’t know how the process works.

    Police call the ATF. ATF contacts the manufacturer or importer and asks them to check their records on where it went. ATF then contacts that person or business. Rinse and repeat until they get to the person who possessed the gun last or they can’t finish the connection.

    Most people are going to be willing to give up who they sold a gun to when the ATF comes knocking and an FFL is required by law to keep accurate records.

    So the government doesn’t have a record unless the FFL has closed. But it doesn’t take them more than a day or three usually to know the chain of custody in most cases.

    It keeps the ATF/FBI from fishing. But they still have access to the info they need.
     

    Allen65

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    7,063
    Anne Arundel County
    It keeps the ATF/FBI from fishing. But they still have access to the info they need.

    Fishing can still happen; FFLs must present their bound books upon request to ATF, no warrant required. Sure, it's an inconvenience to have to do a physical audit, but it's only an inconvenience, not a legal barrier.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Fishing can still happen; FFLs must present their bound books upon request to ATF, no warrant required. Sure, it's an inconvenience to have to do a physical audit, but it's only an inconvenience, not a legal barrier.

    Sure, but there is the manpower issue at a minimum. If someone is curious if person X has guns, are they going to audit every FFL in a 4 state area to see if that person has ever bought any guns from any of the FFLs in the region and then collate the results? Hell no.

    A real comprehensive national database can be abused. The ATF having a bit of the data and the vast majority residing with FFLs where the ATF can reach out to them on a case by case basis is a better system. It CAN be abused, but it is harder to have wide spread, systemic abuse of such a system.

    When it comes down to it, probably 90% of the time a gun trace is about seeing if someone transferred a gun illegally and toss the book at the person who gave the person a gun if it was an illegal transfer. The other 10% of the time it might actually "solve a crime" by connecting a gun from a crime scene to a legal owner. Or possibly reunite a gun with the legal owner who had it stolen (that said, if it was properly reported, it should be in the national lost guns database or whatever it is called that the FBI maintains for law enforcement).

    And yeah, my 90/10 is probably too generous on how many crimes a gun trace "solves" and in most of the 90% the trace likely ends at a legal owner where the gun was stolen or ends up at the criminal where they got the gun legally before they committed a crime (because they had no prior record).
     

    Rambler

    Doing the best with the worst.
    Oct 22, 2011
    2,163
    Fishing can still happen; FFLs must present their bound books upon request to ATF, no warrant required. Sure, it's an inconvenience to have to do a physical audit, but it's only an inconvenience, not a legal barrier.

    The records of an FFL are supposed to be surrendered to the BATFE when they go out of business. All those books and 4473s are being digitally scanned.
     

    Slackdaddy

    My pronouns: Iva/Bigun
    Jan 1, 2019
    5,850
    In MD you have a legal reason to not own any of the long guns the 4473s may show you own. Up until the day F2F sales are outlawed
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    The de- gunning of Wal Mart has been a long time process .

    As they expand into non- traditional ( for them) urban and urban-ish areas , it's been a frequent strategy in negotiating zoning variances to volunteer to Not sell guns or ammunition in specific locations . And for " business reasons " lots of former full gun departments get downsized to ammo and accessories only during periodic remodeling . And of course their pledge to stop selling EBR , or ammo for EB firearms decreased further the revenues and profits / sq ft .

    FFL'S are required to keep 4473 for minimum 20 yrs . All FFL ceasing opperations are required to surrender the records to ATF . Think back about how many start up gun stores last 20yrs , and how many simply close up opperations when sole proprietor retires or dies .
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Oh but thet swear the records aren't retained

    NICS records are not kept. And do not have any firearms info.

    4473s have ALWAYS been kept. The FFL keeps them. And if they go out of business, the forms are sent to the BATFE.

    Watch the original Red Dawn. The Russian commander tells his people to go to the gun store for the yellow forms (the 4473 used to be yellow) so they can find out who is armed.

    BATFE is prohibited from having a gun registration database, but every so often tried to digitize and "organize" the 4473s they have in paper form.
     

    W_Donahue

    Member
    Jul 26, 2014
    19
    Oh no. This sucks. The Walmart gun counter was where I went to escape the long lines by just bringing my shopping cart there and buying a box of ammo.
     

    mpollan1

    Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 26, 2012
    6,559
    Мэриленд
    Think back about how many start up gun stores last 20yrs , and how many simply close up opperations when sole proprietor retires or dies .

    Only met him twice. Shop was empty both times. Jawed for over an hour each time but it seemed like 5 minutes. RIP Lou.

    Sorry, flashback Saturday.
     

    bronco

    Member
    Dec 14, 2020
    62
    se Va
    As far as Walmart closing the gun counters down, any retailer taking this type of action in the current political culture should come as no surprise to anyone on either side of the conservative/liberal struggle, whether you feel it is unfortunate or welcome it.
     

    Tomcat

    Formerly Known As HITWTOM
    May 7, 2012
    5,568
    St.Mary's County
    I went to the one in St.Mary's last week and the gun cabinet was empty. When I asked if they were one of the ones being closed he told me no, they were told to remove all firearms and ammo until after the inauguration. The one up in PA still has rifles and shotguns
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    I never really thought Walmart and then Guns , i know they sell them like crazy in past years . But i always went gun store , not sure why . I suppose i would rather go to the Mom & Pop shops to be honest for a more personal experience .
     

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