In just over a month 118 Red Flag PO’s

whistlersmother · Dec 9, 2018

3paul10 said:
I got 7 turtles out of the road this year....last year i got a snapper out of the middle of the road....kicked at him with my shoe....he tried to bite my toes...ungrateful...

Yea, those bastards are one mean hombry! The one I moved to the grass raised up and stared long and hard at my car. I though the damn thing was going to bite the tires and make a flat - I got the hell outta dodge.

Later I learned they don't normally sun on the road, but prefer to sun in natural surroundings like log/water. Glad I didn't run into him again. That bastard was totally ungrateful.

3paul10 · Dec 9, 2018

Yep....they can ruin your day! But ill risk being hit by a car to save em.....go figure

Jim12 · Dec 9, 2018

They must be Maryland terrapins.

IDFInfantry · Dec 9, 2018

If you have watched this film and hated it, you might just be unAmerican! Not related to this thread but just saw this movie again today and wanted to share that it brings me to tears every time!
[YT]2zA12kVDm6M[/YT]

RoadDawg · Dec 9, 2018

3paul10 said:
Yep....they can ruin your day! But ill risk being hit by a car to save em.....go figure

I stopped to move a very large turtle from the road at Loch Raven. It was about the size of a pith helmet. The kid in the car behind me, jumped out and ran to grab the turtle... picked it up and was carrying it across to drop it on the side of the road by the water.

I was ssoooooo glad he got to it before me... that turtle wizzed all over that poor kid as he was walking across the road. By the time the kid knew what was happening... his pants were soaked. I got back on my HD and rode away thanking him for stepping up.

IDFInfantry · Dec 10, 2018

I spoke with a Montgomery County Police officer that has been on the force for a very long time. I had a few questions about this new Red Flag Law. We had a very nice discussion about it. I asked them how many of these ERPO’s have been filed in MoCo. They explained to me that a lot of them have. Much more than are claimed on that county map that has been posted here. I asked if they felt there were any issues with the new law as they saw it. They said yes but also gave counter stories where they went to a house for a domestic dispute and later found out that a husband shot their spouse so in a way they felt it’s a new tool for them to potentially save lives. I felt that they implied that this was now there go to option if they deemed necessary and also to err on the side of caution. I asked well if the person didn’t have a gun and were intent on killing their spouse wouldn’t they just find another way of carrying it out? I mean how many people have been stabbed to death or killed by blunt force trauma?? They said true but still felt it’s necessary to strip people of their rights and property just to be safe. I asked if any officers have refused to carry out these orders. They said no obviously. They explained that most of the time these ERPO’s are served by the Sheriffs office and in many cases they ask local law enforcement agencies for support. They seemed to understand how the law can and is being abused but there is nothing really they can do about it obviously. They basically told me just try not to piss anybody off. So you are guilty until proven innocent. Scary stuff. Not the country I remember growing up in. We are living in some very very strange times indeed.

3paul10 · Dec 10, 2018

Id rather discuss turtles.

IDFInfantry · Dec 10, 2018

3paul10 said:
Id rather discuss turtles.

Yes of course save the turtles!! Especially the desert tortoises.

fabsroman · Dec 10, 2018

IDFInfantry said:
I spoke with a Montgomery County Police officer that has been on the force for a very long time. I had a few questions about this new Red Flag Law. We had a very nice discussion about it. I asked them how many of these ERPO’s have been filed in MoCo. They explained to me that a lot of them have. Much more than are claimed on that county map that has been posted here. I asked if they felt there were any issues with the new law as they saw it. They said yes but also gave counter stories where they went to a house for a domestic dispute and later found out that a husband shot their spouse so in a way they felt it’s a new tool for them to potentially save lives. I asked well if the person didn’t have a gun and were intent on killing their spouse wouldn’t they just find another way of carrying it out? I mean how many people have been stabbed to death or killed by blunt force trauma?? They said true but still felt it’s necessary to strip people of their rights and property just to be safe. I asked if any officers have refused to carry out these orders. They said no obviously. They explained that most of the time these ERPO’s are served by the Sheriffs office and in many cases they ask local law enforcement agencies for support. They seemed to understand how the law can and is being abused but there is nothing really they can do about it obviously. They basically told me just try not to piss anybody off. So you are guilty until proven innocent. Scary stuff. Not the country I remember growing up in. We are living in some very very strange times indeed.

Nice write up of your discussion with the officers.

You are right, we live in some strange times indeed. When I went to grade school, college, law school, and bars/clubs I never once worried about being involved in a mass shooting.

I was a year out of law school when Columbine happened, and it seemed surreal. Then, they keep on coming. Now, when I go up to my kids' elementary school I always try to think about what I would do if the unthinkable happens.

I am not saying that this Red Flag law is the answer, but times sure are different than they were 30 years ago. Guessing every generation goes through this as they see changes happening to the country.

What is to blame for these mass shootings? Is it a failure to address mental health, TV/movies/video games/media/culture, availability of firearns, terrorism? Never heard of this kind of stuff when I was growing up.

Not sure anybody really has an answer for this problem where people decide to go on shooting sprees.

IDFInfantry · Dec 10, 2018

Not sure but all I can tell you is this. Mass shootings happen all around the world. During my time in Israel close to 10 years. Numerous (more than I can count) terror attacks took place. Many of those terror attacks were attempted mass shootings. The difference is that pretty much everyone is armed in Israel. You cannot turn your head in any direction and not see a handgun or rifle. Often times armed civilians stop the terror threat or attack before law enforcement or the military respond. Do accidents happen? Yes but not nearly as often as you might think. It’s common place to see people carrying in the workplace, religious places of worship and schools over there as well. You don’t see a whole lot of bank robberies or robberies in general over there. It’s a death sentence! I actually felt quite safe over there and I wasn’t anywhere close to being the gun enthusiast that I am now. Being over there though gave me a very different perspective on the issue. Any liberal American Jew that pushes for gun control is a complete and utter fool and hypocrite.

Occam · Dec 10, 2018

fabsroman said:
What is to blame for these mass shootings? Is it a failure to address mental health, TV/movies/video games/media/culture, availability of firearns, terrorism? Never heard of this kind of stuff when I was growing up.

In most ways that matter, firearms are LESS available to the average young-ish male that we most often associate with these things. Wasn't so long ago you could walk in and out of Sears with a gun, or pick one up at the hardware store without a lot of fuss. They're far, far harder to come by legally, now, than they ever have been. And despite some grotesque recent lapses, prohibiting histories are multiplying like crazy.

Conversely, young minds are absolutely marinated in coverage of this sort of thing when it happens. Columbine essentially started a cult. Mentally not-right guys like Adam Lanza were absolutely fixated on the topic (his mom didn't seem to mind that his bedroom was covered in clippings, spreadsheets analyzing deaths, etc), and had a never-ending supply of media coverage, internet content, and obsessive chatter to consume. If one's mind strays that direction, there's now a fountain of poison ready for one to drink. For lack of a better description, it's now a fashionable way to exorcise one's demons. The brain that aspires to this stuff knows the act will produce endless notoriety - almost a form of demi-god immortality, among those who likewise fixate on it. It's a vicious cycle, now.

The solution? Don't let it work like it has been. In much the way that ISIS dramatically lost its appeal among young men when they saw that their sprawling, powerful caliphate was rapidly turning into a shrinking slaughterhouse with no power or glory at all ... more cases of would-be mass shooters getting busted, humiliated, or just plain boringly dead before they could make their mark - perhaps that will de-romanticize it some among the next generation of bored, angry-at-the-world losers who can't conjure up any more high-profile a way to act out. Take away the fantasy, magical thinking that one of these shooters is going to be able, in death, to turn on CNN and see himself being a rock anti-star, and some of the appeal goes away. It's on the media to stop feeding that delusion.

Art3 · Dec 10, 2018

IDFInfantry said:
Not sure but all I can tell you is this. Mass shootings happen all around the world. During my time in Israel close to 10 years. Numerous (more than I can count) terror attacks took place. Many of those terror attacks were attempted mass shootings. The difference is that pretty much everyone is armed in Israel. You cannot turn your head in any direction and not see a handgun or rifle. Often times armed civilians stop the terror threat or attack before law enforcement or the military respond. Do accidents happen? Yes but not nearly as often as you might think. It’s common place to see people carrying in the workplace, religious places of worship and schools over there as well. You don’t see a whole lot of bank robberies or robberies in general over there. It’s a death sentence! I actually felt quite safe over there and I wasn’t anywhere close to being the gun enthusiast that I am now. Being over there though gave me a very different perspective on the issue. Any liberal American Jew that pushes for gun control is a complete and utter fool and hypocrite.

Occam said:
In most ways that matter, firearms are LESS available to the average young-ish male that we most often associate with these things. Wasn't so long ago you could walk in and out of Sears with a gun, or pick one up at the hardware store without a lot of fuss. They're far, far harder to come by legally, now, than they ever have been. And despite some grotesque recent lapses, prohibiting histories are multiplying like crazy.

Conversely, young minds are absolutely marinated in coverage of this sort of thing when it happens. Columbine essentially started a cult. Mentally not-right guys like Adam Lanza were absolutely fixated on the topic (his mom didn't seem to mind that his bedroom was covered in clippings, spreadsheets analyzing deaths, etc), and had a never-ending supply of media coverage, internet content, and obsessive chatter to consume. If one's mind strays that direction, there's now a fountain of poison ready for one to drink. For lack of a better description, it's now a fashionable way to exorcise one's demons. The brain that aspires to this stuff knows the act will produce endless notoriety - almost a form of demi-god immortality, among those who likewise fixate on it. It's a vicious cycle, now.

The solution? Don't let it work like it has been. In much the way that ISIS dramatically lost its appeal among young men when they saw that their sprawling, powerful caliphate was rapidly turning into a shrinking slaughterhouse with no power or glory at all ... more cases of would-be mass shooters getting busted, humiliated, or just plain boringly dead before they could make their mark - perhaps that will de-romanticize it some among the next generation of bored, angry-at-the-world losers who can't conjure up any more high-profile a way to act out. Take away the fantasy, magical thinking that one of these shooters is going to be able, in death, to turn on CNN and see himself being a rock anti-star, and some of the appeal goes away. It's on the media to stop feeding that delusion.

I had all but given up on anything positive coming from this thread, until these two excellent posts :thumbsup:

Schipperke · Dec 10, 2018

dblas said:
Not really (As least according to the numbers) and hopefully it will stary that way.

There were 114 ERPOs requested in October and less than 60 were granted. Those that weren't, we can surmise, were people crying wolf and had nothing to substantiate a reason for an ERPO to a judge, court commissioner, or LE.

That very well could change after the next legislative session, given how they want to strengthen the law, and the Governor seems to be on board to do so.

More than ever, people need to show up in Annapolis, but I fear that people really just don't care about their rights in Maryland.

How is it not strong enough now?

KevinK · Dec 10, 2018

Schipperke said:
How is it not strong enough now?

They probably want to let anyone file, not just cops/family, etc.

:tdown:

ironpony · Dec 10, 2018

It would seem that if the bag lady presents enough fear to authorities she can invoke a flag raising.

I've seen no positives regarding this law so I guess we just move on and complain about the next law they pass. Trump is about to infringe next right? triggers.

whistlersmother · Dec 10, 2018

ironpony said:
It would seem that if the bag lady presents enough fear to authorities she can invoke a flag raising.

I've seen no positives regarding this law so I guess we just move on and complain about the next law they pass. Trump is about to infringe next right? triggers.

Make them live by their own laws. That's the only good. Not the lawmaker directly, but his campaign manager's wife, his biggest donor's business manager, chief of staff, liquor distributor driver, etc.

Personally, I'd like to see everyone in Maryland get ERPO so that the courts and police are overwhelmed with these orders.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

ironpony · Dec 10, 2018

How do you explain this to kids, bad break up could go bad for the entire family, and family pet, quickly. Can one honestly vote for a sheriff who supports "No due process"?

inkd · Dec 10, 2018

ironpony said:
Can one honestly vote for a sheriff who supports "No due process"?

All that sheriff has to do is be less evil than the other sheriff running and they'll win.

Occam · Dec 10, 2018

inkd said:
All that sheriff has to do is be less evil than the other sheriff running and they'll win.

And shouldn't they? In an election between the two, you surely wouldn't want the more evil one, would you? I wouldn't.

eruby · Dec 10, 2018

This is who the MGA/Lawn Chair Larry wants to give filing privileges.

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