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Old April 16th, 2018, 11:42 PM #541
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It does not look like there is a sleeve that could complete it into a suppressor. On the other hand, I would not want to be next to whoever is shooting with that thing at the end of their rifle.
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Old April 17th, 2018, 08:59 PM #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by md_al View Post
It does not look like there is a sleeve that could complete it into a suppressor. On the other hand, I would not want to be next to whoever is shooting with that thing at the end of their rifle.

In the SigSauer case they had almost the exact same open design. They tried calling it a muzzle brake but BATFE said No. It was a suppressor, even without an outer sleeve. The design does work however at reducing the report.


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Old April 18th, 2018, 07:42 PM #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToolAA View Post
In the SigSauer case they had almost the exact same open design. They tried calling it a muzzle brake but BATFE said No. It was a suppressor, even without an outer sleeve. The design does work however at reducing the report.


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https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/app...sor-component/
The court also agreed with the ATF’s arguments that the brake is unusually large, particularly for a pistol-caliber carbine, and dimension-wise, similar to monocore baffles used in silencers, not brakes. The fact that the device was threaded to accept an adapter to convert to a suppressor without modification was also part of their decision.

SIG argued that the part was oversized to bring the overall barrel length up to over 16 inches to exempt it from NFA-regulation but ultimately the court ruled that the device was designed as a suppressor component first, then re-classified as a brake. SIG had “basically taken the cap off [of its] silencer, welded it onto the gun, and [was] just going to sell it as a muzzle brake.”

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1739215.html
ATF concluded that the part at issue is intended for use only in assembling or fabricating a silencer because it was designed with features that are common to all silencers but no muzzle brakes; because the gun that includes the part is not of a type that requires, or is sold with, a muzzle brake; and because Sig Sauer initially submitted a prototype of the gun to ATF that functioned safely only if the part at issue was encased and thus had been made into a completed silencer. Given that the administrative record adequately supports these findings, and that these findings reasonably support ATF's conclusion that the part is “intended only for use” in assembling or fabricating a silencer, we conclude that ATF's classification of this part as a silencer is not arbitrary and capricious. See State Farm, 463 U.S. at 43.

Further supporting ATF's finding that this part is a monolithic baffle core is the fact that, through testing, ATF found that the part significantly reduced the report of a gunshot when it was encased. Moreover, ATF supportably found that this part is identical to the monolithic baffle core that Sig Sauer uses as the interior of the complete silencers that it sells; that Sig Sauer used the same part number to identify the part in question here and the core of its removable silencer; that Sig Sauer labeled this part a “silencer” on its invoice;2 and that the part included threading at the muzzle end that made it easy to encase the part to produce a complete silencer.
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Old April 18th, 2018, 08:49 PM #544
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Thanks for finding the article. I and posting the case law. I dont recall if the original source for me was the guns america source or some other, but I did not know that Sig had originally designed the device as a suppressor part to be later (Legally) converted into a suppressor once covered.

Where do you think that leaves the legal status of the eBay item? It clearly doesn’t have threads on it to attach a sleeve, but it sure looks like it could be interpreted as a potential suppressor part. Seems like a risky grey area for sure.


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Old April 19th, 2018, 11:35 AM #545
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Interesting. Turns out similar devices are all over ebay. Though just about any commercial round brake could have a sleeve welded over it to become a small suppressor (or at least the first couple baffles of a longer one.)

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Old April 19th, 2018, 04:34 PM #546
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Interesting. The longer eBay one might fit inside a NAPA 4003 fuel filter which would serve as a shroud.
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Old April 19th, 2018, 07:56 PM #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToolAA View Post
Thanks for finding the article. I and posting the case law. I dont recall if the original source for me was the guns america source or some other, but I did not know that Sig had originally designed the device as a suppressor part to be later (Legally) converted into a suppressor once covered.

Where do you think that leaves the legal status of the eBay item? It clearly doesn’t have threads on it to attach a sleeve, but it sure looks like it could be interpreted as a potential suppressor part. Seems like a risky grey area for sure.


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It does sound like in a gray area. Then again freeze plugs are being re-purposed as baffles and that is completely legal. Knowing the outer diameter would mean that it could fit into a sleeve and take the place the of freeze plugs. Say the .308 muzzle brake. But being aluminum, I would not be sure if it would hold up to the pressure* generated by a 10.5" AR pistol. Maybe for a 22.

*http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=1093

There was a discussion that I found about Aluminum .223 silencers here:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=86789

https://robrobinette.com/suppressor.htm
Recommends Aluminum on Centerfire subsonic rounds only.
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Old April 20th, 2018, 08:31 AM #548
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I wouldn't want to be the "is this different enough" test case. I feel like by the time you have someone that is set up to make a sleeve fit and weld it in place on aluminum, they could probably make whatever they want anyway.
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Old April 21st, 2018, 10:08 PM #549
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I bet those things would fit in a barrel shroud or a D cell Ti sleeve without modification. But I would only try it on a .22 if at all since I don't know if it would hold up on a 10.5" barrel. I would not use it on a longer barrel because that would make a very long suppressor (closer to 10" if I factor in a 2" blast area + 2 freeze plugs.).
Having used Freeze plugs and steel pipe on Ti builds, I most likely would stick to what I know works. It's heavy but it works. On a 10.5" AR the psi on the 1st 2 baffles is like 14000 IIRC compared to 8000 in a 16" AR barrel. And if I run out of ammo the freeze plug suppressor would make a good club.
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