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Old February 10th, 2019, 08:13 PM #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmable44 View Post
Does it specifically state this? When I read through the text pdf link under the documents tab, that document still had the “except Colt Sporter HBAR” part. Unless I’m totally reading it wrong
Was it in brackets? If so that signifies deletion in legalese
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Old February 10th, 2019, 08:14 PM #532
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I can't wait to leave this state.
I said the same thing the other day but in retrospect where are you going to go? The liberal creep is everywhere. AZ, VA, and yes Texas. The liberals don't realize it but they crap all over a city or state then flee to a neighboring one and begin to screw that one up too.

VA is just 3 congressional seats away from being MD. The scandals may have changed that but the numbers are still the same right now and the gun owner populace of VA isn't paying attention. Americans being Americans, all is well until it isn't. Then, when its too late, the fires are lit.

AZ is getting a complete change over of CA liberals and illegal aliens moving in.

TX is similar to AZ. Lots of illegals. San Antonio is the fastest growing city and it isn't from generations of Texans having kids of their own.

As cities get bigger and bigger they take over the voting populace of a state. Only half of a voting population ever votes and there is no state electoral college so the creep is only going to get worse.

I always thought of going to TX but I think in a decade TX is going to be blue which means it's all over for the country and there won't even be a short term place to hide.
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Old February 10th, 2019, 08:20 PM #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertfish View Post
Was it in brackets? If so that signifies deletion in legalese
Yes it was. Thanks!
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Old February 11th, 2019, 08:52 PM #534
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Old February 12th, 2019, 03:22 PM #535
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Originally Posted by IDFInfantry View Post
I think this fits exactly to ex post facto or Bill of attainder.

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Second, making the disqualification dependent on the date the misdemeanor crime was committed is consistent with basic precepts embodied in the ban on ex post facto laws. Under our Constitution, that ban expressly applies both to Congress and the States. See Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 (“No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed”), and Article 1, Section 10, Clause 1 (“No State shall * * * pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law”). This constitutional prohibition against ex post facto laws “bar[s] enactments which, by retroactive operation, increase the punishment for a crime after its commission.” Garner v. Jones , 529 U.S. 244, 249 (2000) (emphasis added). A statute that retroactively imposes a legal disability on a person will fall under the Ex Post Facto Clause if “the intention of the legislature was to impose punishment” or if the scheme is “‘so punitive either in purpose or effect as to negate [the State's] intention’ to deem it ‘civil.’” Smith v. Doe , 538 U.S. 84, 92 (2003)(citation omitted). Under these principles, a person may not be subjected to punitive sanctions greater than those that existed as of the time the offense was committed. If the crime was punishable by imprisonment for 2 years or less as of the time it was committed, the State may not, consistent with the Ex Post Facto Clause, make that offense punishable by a sentence of more than 2 years after the date of crime. By focusing on the date the crime was committed, the bill is faithful to these principles. It should receive a favorable report by this Committee.
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In Federalist Paper No. 84 (4th para), Alexander Hamilton says re ex post facto laws (and of the importance of the writ of habeas corpus):
“…The creation of crimes after the commission of the fact, or, in other words, the subjecting of men to punishment for things which,
when they were done, were breaches of no law, and the practice of arbitrary imprisonments,
have been, in all ages, the favorite and most formidable instruments of tyranny…”
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Old February 12th, 2019, 10:03 PM #536
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
Exactly. Right now, I can go buy an HBAR AR-15. Totally legal.

If this law passes, that sale, even if it was today, would be made illegal "after the fact." That's literally the definition of ex post facto. They could come to me on 10/2/19 and arrest me for having bought an HBAR today, as well as arresting the FFL who sold it to me, because that sale was ONLY legal if it took place before 10/1/13 the way that the bill is worded.


This above: It's not rocket science...
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Old February 12th, 2019, 10:09 PM #537
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Originally Posted by fred2207 View Post
This above: It's not rocket science...
Right but the same exact bill became law in NJ. Not ARs but magazines over 10 rounds.

It's going through the court system. Completely unconstitutional but the libs know it'll take years.
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Old February 12th, 2019, 10:09 PM #538
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Nope. Not sure why this seems complicated to some. Today, you can buy an HBAR. Tomorrow, you can still buy an HBAR. October 1, you can no longer buy or possess an HBAR. You would only be in legal jeopardy for having an HBAR after October 1. So, you get rid of it or move it out of state, whatever. You're in compliance. No legal jeopardy. So the fact that you DID, in the past, buy an HBAR isn't a source of legal trouble. If the law DID say that the fact you - in the past - purchased one, even if you got rid of it by the deadline, THEN we'd be talking about ex post facto. The date business refers to which gun you can keep after October 1. Those purchased before the 2013 date you can, those purchased after, you can't. But you can't be prosecuted for having made the purchase. Only for hanging onto it after October 1.

Which is all insanity, of course. But it's not ex post facto lawmaking, per se.
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Old February 12th, 2019, 10:13 PM #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfixer View Post
I think this fits exactly to ex post facto or Bill of attainder.




In Federalist Paper No. 84 (4th para), Alexander Hamilton says re ex post facto laws (and of the importance of the writ of habeas corpus):
“…The creation of crimes after the commission of the fact, or, in other words, the subjecting of men to punishment for things which,
when they were done, were breaches of no law, and the practice of arbitrary imprisonments,
have been, in all ages, the favorite and most formidable instruments of tyranny…”
It is NOT ex post facto

You ruined your own argument with the federalist quote. If they make HBARs illegal to possesss, you will have time to dispose of said items. It would ONLY be an ex post facto law if you got rid of your HBAR by Sept 30, 2019 and after October 1, 2019 you were charged with possessing an HBAR before it actually became illegal. After October 1, 2019, if HBAR possession is illegal, and you possess an HBAR, you are in violation of the law.
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Old February 12th, 2019, 10:30 PM #540
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Originally Posted by Dingo3 View Post
I’ve only had one interaction with MSI and it was in 2013. Actually, it wasn’t an interaction at all since I went to their table at the Outdoor Show at Frederick Fairgrounds (it was held there that year due to Newtown and the previous location backing out). I was curious as to what they were all about but the gentlemen behind the table were too busy yukking it up amongst themselves to even give me the time of day. Yes, I asked what they were about and if they had any literature. Nope, nothing, nada, zilch from them. Wouldn’t even talk to me. They wanted nothing to do with me. Just my experience with the organization. Nothing more and nothing less.
I worked the 3 first shifts at that show 2 on the Friday and Saturday the first shift early morning. It would have been my first show. I talked to so many folks. I won't say the same of others. You are correct that some of the reps may have been discussing things amongst themselves as most if not all were new at doing this. It was found that some were not on the same page with up to date info. A lot was going on at the time. Sorry for your experience. But MSI is way more the authority now than back in 2013.
Found a review of the show written by a volunteer. . As follows...

I thought it went pretty well today. We had a lot of positive responses, got a LOT of email addresses, handed out a LOT of brochures. It wasn't perfect though and I have a few suggestions for tomorrow, or next time. It takes about 5 seconds for somebody to walk past our booth, if they don't see something they think is interesting, they keep going. We can't catch them all, we need them to stop sometimes. Even for those that did stop, they seemed confused as to what we did unless they were already aware of us. The "Citizens Defense league" thing is a little confusing to some people. Also the picture of a guy hanging front and center with a quote about banning guns I think gave some people the impression that we were anti-gun. I had at least a dozen people ask me if we were for or against gun control.

I think we could use a banner or something saying, "We are fighting for your 2A rights in MD!" Or perhaps something tailored for hunters, "Ask us about how your Hunting rights are being affected."

Overall people were very receptive, and we had a bunch of people come right up to us and ask us what they can do to help. I think it was Del. Shultz who came up and thanked us for all the work we were doing, that was very nice of her.

The crew there was great, Mr. H is a very good spokesman. I'm not as great at that kind of thing, but I tried. I give us an A- overall.
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