Gunpowder registry

Speedluvn · May 31, 2020

Curious if anyone is aware if their is a registry that suppliers notifying state officials for bulk powder purchases? I’m enjoying the freedom of amassing, not stockpiling, consumables. Where do I find local ordinances for limits on flammable materials for Baltimore County?

Squaregrouper · May 31, 2020

Speedluvn said:
Curious if anyone is aware if their is a registry that suppliers notifying state officials for bulk powder purchases? I’m enjoying the freedom of amassing, not stockpiling, consumables. Where do I find local ordinances for limits on flammable materials for Baltimore County?

I'm 99% sure there is a limit of 5lbs in a residence without a special permit.

Pale Ryder · May 31, 2020

Local limits may, and probably due vary from Feds.

https://www.alliantpowder.com/getting_started/safety/storage_handling.aspx

State limit is 5 lbs.

Speedluvn · May 31, 2020

Thank you. I’m a novice reloader and I was having a discussion about how much gunpowder goes into a certain amount of rounds and that I just ordered some and I that need to reorder more. That than lead to the discussion of approximately how many rounds I have on hand. My comment was that it’s not much but if the media photographed the small amount of rounds they would make it seem that I was arming a small militia [insert sarcastic smiley here]
A matter of perspective

Pinecone · May 31, 2020

Speedluvn said:
Curious if anyone is aware if their is a registry that suppliers notifying state officials for bulk powder purchases? I’m enjoying the freedom of amassing, not stockpiling, consumables. Where do I find local ordinances for limits on flammable materials for Baltimore County?

Some stores do take your information. Bass Pro is one.

But most MD retailers do not. And no one outside MD takes that info. Or for online ordering, they do not report to MD.

K31 · May 31, 2020

Dealers are required by law to keep a record of all purchases, available for inspection by Federal, State and local LEOs.

John from MD · May 31, 2020

This isn't true. I have never given my information to any gun shop where I bought powder in PA, DE, VA and a lot of other states.

outrider58 · May 31, 2020

Powder Valley comes right out and states that they assume large purchases of powder shipping to states with limited possession are group buys to avoid those pesky HAZMAT fees.

Speedluvn · May 31, 2020

outrider58 said:
Powder Valley comes right out and states that they assume large purchases of powder shipping to states with limited possession are group buys to avoid those pesky HAZMAT fees.

Arent the HAZEMAT fees charged by the shipping company?

Nanook · May 31, 2020

They say the 5lb limit is a fire marshal thing. Out West, several states away from Marylandistan, I have seen kegs (barrels) of powder lined up. The key thing is to store it safely - which means it is a no-go in multi-family dwellings, not in your furnace room, etc.

There are some old discussions in the archives about this. One of the most creative I think was NovusCollectus (RIP buddy) and his idea to "reload" empty .50BMG cases with powder and then seal them shut to keep out the humidity. That would satisfy the letter of the law but not the spirit - which the FD folks wanted put in place so they aren't fighting a structure fire when 130lbs of powder cooks off.

outrider58 · May 31, 2020

Speedluvn said:
Arent the HAZEMAT fees charged by the shipping company?

...and?

The HAZMAT fee is collected by the seller in order to cover the cost(to them) for shipping hazardous materials, usually by Fed-x

They don't get any part of that, although some dealers have lower HAZMAT fees than do others. I've noticed, the dealers who charge a lower fee, usually charge more for the product. A little bait and switch? Perhaps, but one way or the other, you pay the fee and it goes to the shipping company. Not the dealer/seller.

Speedluvn · May 31, 2020

Nanook said:
They say the 5lb limit is a fire marshal thing. Out West, several states away from Marylandistan, I have seen kegs (barrels) of powder lined up. The key thing is to store it safely - which means it is a no-go in multi-family dwellings, not in your furnace room, etc.

There are some old discussions in the archives about this. One of the most creative I think was NovusCollectus (RIP buddy) and his idea to "reload" empty .50BMG cases with powder and then seal them shut to keep out the humidity. That would satisfy the letter of the law but not the spirit - which the FD folks wanted put in place so they aren't fighting a structure fire when 130lbs of powder cooks off.

I’ve yet to read any ordinances but the 5 lbs limit is containers of gunpowder and not rounds? There’s a whole new aspect that comes along with reloading and I’m trying to come up to speed as quickly and safely as I can. It’s refreshing to not have to rely on what ammo I can get in local stores :party29:

Speedluvn · May 31, 2020

outrider58 said:
...and?

The HAZMAT fee is collected by the seller in order to cover the cost(to them) for shipping hazardous materials, usually by Fed-x

They don't get any part of that, although some dealers have lower HAZMAT fees than do others. I've noticed, the dealers who charge a lower fee, usually charge more for the product. A little bait and switch? Perhaps, but one way or the other, you pay the fee and it goes to the shipping company. Not the dealer/seller.

Yes. That’s the way that I understood the HAZEMAT fees to be.

John from MD · May 31, 2020

Nanook said:
They say the 5lb limit is a fire marshal thing. Out West, several states away from Marylandistan, I have seen kegs (barrels) of powder lined up. The key thing is to store it safely - which means it is a no-go in multi-family dwellings, not in your furnace room, etc.

There are some old discussions in the archives about this. One of the most creative I think was NovusCollectus (RIP buddy) and his idea to "reload" empty .50BMG cases with powder and then seal them shut to keep out the humidity. That would satisfy the letter of the law but not the spirit - which the FD folks wanted put in place so they aren't fighting a structure fire when 130lbs of powder cooks off.

If they would view one of the many training videos on the subject, they would actually see that smokeless powder doesn't cook off, it burns. As for rounds that cook off, in EOD training we did .50cal, 20mm and 40mm and the projectile stayed nearly in the same place while the case ruptured. I believe that SAAMI made some videos to the same effect.

Scrounger · May 31, 2020

Not to get too far in the weeds, black powder is what gun powder is now usually called. Black powder is considered a Class B explosive.

Smokeless powder that is used in modern ammunition is a Flammable solid.

The differences between them can require different licenses to sell.

When it comes to transporting them, it depends on the quantity. Some years ago, the feds added a lot of regulations, even for small amounts, that added to the costs of transport. The result is the shippers raised the fees for Hazmat shipments.

outrider58 · May 31, 2020

Speedluvn said:
Yes. That’s the way that I understood the HAZEMAT fees to be.

So I'm not sure whst your question was.

jcutonilli · May 31, 2020

Nanook said:
They say the 5lb limit is a fire marshal thing. Out West, several states away from Marylandistan, I have seen kegs (barrels) of powder lined up. The key thing is to store it safely - which means it is a no-go in multi-family dwellings, not in your furnace room, etc.

There are some old discussions in the archives about this. One of the most creative I think was NovusCollectus (RIP buddy) and his idea to "reload" empty .50BMG cases with powder and then seal them shut to keep out the humidity. That would satisfy the letter of the law but not the spirit - which the FD folks wanted put in place so they aren't fighting a structure fire when 130lbs of powder cooks off.

Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 11-105 requires a license for possession of explosives. One of the exemptions is for limited amounts of gunpowder

(d) Exceptions -- Possession of explosives for use in firearms. --
(1) Subject to paragraph (2) of this subsection, a person need not obtain a license to possess or store up to 5 pounds of smokeless powder for the loading or reloading of small arms ammunition, and up to 5 pounds of black powder for the loading or reloading of small arms ammunition or for use in the loading of antique arms or replicas of antique arms, if the smokeless powder and black powder are stored in their original shipping containers and are possessed only for personal use in firearms.
(2) A person may not possess or store explosives for use in firearms in any quantity in multifamily dwellings, apartments, dormitories, hotels, schools, other public buildings, or buildings or structures open for public use.

The fire marshal thing would likely enforce the International Fire Code. It exempts 1 lb of black powder, 20 lbs of smokeless powder and 10,000 primers for personal consumption. You can have more, but that creates additional requirements.

As for fire tests on ammunition SAAMI

Speedluvn · May 31, 2020

outrider58 said:
So I'm not sure whst your question was.

My main question has been answered. It was basically, 1) do companies report to state agencies individuals purchasing gunpowder and 2) how much can a person have in the home. I’m trying to understand the ramifications of responsibility maintaining consumables for reloading.

jcutonilli · May 31, 2020

Scrounger said:
Not to get too far in the weeds, black powder is what gun powder is now usually called. Black powder is considered a Class B explosive.

Smokeless powder that is used in modern ammunition is a Flammable solid.

The differences between them can require different licenses to sell.

When it comes to transporting them, it depends on the quantity. Some years ago, the feds added a lot of regulations, even for small amounts, that added to the costs of transport. The result is the shippers raised the fees for Hazmat shipments.

Black powder is a Class A explosive per OSHA 1910.109. It is an old classification. The new DOT classification of black powder is Division 1.1. Smokeless powder is currently Division 1.3. The various classifications drive applicable requirements.

atblis · May 31, 2020

Do this, and don't tell anybody what you have.

10-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) may be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), may be stored in residences if kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls or at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.

The 1 inch thick boxes are a good idea in general.

If anybody asks, tell them you are following the guidelines of the National Fire Protection Association, which is based on rigorous industry testing.

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